Ineos Grenadier.

[Coog]

They're more likely to slip under the radar doing some actual work. You'd probably pass a dozen of them on / off the roads and not even notice. The majority of the Defenders I see about town appear to be spec'd to be the complete opposite of that.

 

[mk2driver]

The Defender is PHEV though, isn't it? The Grenadier is just a BMW diesel. He will have other options from them, but those won't be cheap for him.

There is very little about his EV project, other than something "a little smaller" built on Merc/BMW bits again. Which means it will work, just sounds very mainstream. Which means he'd need serious volume to compete.

I don't think it actually exists other than on paper, or maybe a test mule of some form. But it would tick the boxes for more grants.

Defender has the below engine options at the moment but there will be others in the future

Gasoline 4 cylinder PHEV
Gasoline 6 cylinder MHEV
Gasoline V8
Diesel 6 cylinder MHEV

 

[Eddies]

Considering how **** Land Rovers and Range Rovers are, and now these Ineos Grenadiers, it’s strange how few Toyota Land Cruisers there seem to be. They look no worse, and presumably are far better cars.

 

[Jbridges522]

The uk public largely loves to hate anything that comes out of JLR and that alone will sell a few Ineos, Land Cruisers etc.

As for the Ineos I liked the idea but they just haven’t delivered on the brief, don’t hate them but think it’s turned out different for being different.

 

[it_carwasher]

The Defender is PHEV though, isn't it? The Grenadier is just a BMW diesel. He will have other options from them, but those won't be cheap for him.

There is very little about his EV project, other than something "a little smaller" built on Merc/BMW bits again. Which means it will work, just sounds very mainstream. Which means he'd need serious volume to compete.

I don't think it actually exists other than on paper, or maybe a test mule of some form. But it would tick the boxes for more grants.

Some are with 30 mile range, most are diesel with mine a 6 cylinder D300 (MHEV, very small battery for smooth gear change, etc).

If he nails a package / engine and reasonable price, Evs all nose dive it could well work out.

 

[davyk31]

Have seen a couple around locally but they really don’t catch the eye. Look pretty old and outdated which may be the intention but wouldn’t be where my money goes but then I would be more than happy with a full electric Defender or FFRR.

 

[andy9eleven]

Don't forget if the Ineos isn't utilitarian enough there is always the Scottish built Munro...

 

[surprising_skoda]

Old defender sold really badly - just like the Ineos is now. New Defender outsells old Defender yearly sales in 3 months.

Old Defender would not have passed either emissions or crash regs that were coming, Ineos were designed with these in mind hence can look similar but be quite different underneath to achieve these

Everybody talks about how much of a market LR left behind with farmers, utilities etc but it simply wasn’t a market, Defender was not making money apart from the special editions

In order to create a product for that market you need volume to decrease price and neither LR (on old Defender) nor Ineos have that

A steady 5,000 units per year is a market. It may be small but to state there "simply wasn't a market" is incorrect. And, you forget the burgeoning s/h market for Defenders. There isn't a replacement for them so that market is, as I said, still wide open.

It doesn't have to be a huge market in order to decrease price through volume. It just needs to be built to that price point to begin with. There is no reason why a Defender can't be built at the same price point as the swathe of Japanese pickups on the market, instead of adding leather bucket seats and a set of spot lights and slapping on an MRSP of twice that amount.
But actually there is an answer (other than the fact it would fail on multiple points of European legislation but lets just ignore that and revel in the utilitarianism that runs all of SE Asia...)
The Mahindra Bolero...

 

[mk2driver]

A steady 5,000 units per year is a market. It may be small but to state there "simply wasn't a market" is incorrect. And, you forget the burgeoning s/h market for Defenders. There isn't a replacement for them so that market is, as I said, still wide open.

It doesn't have to be a huge market in order to decrease price through volume. It just needs to be built to that price point to begin with. There is no reason why a Defender can't be built at the same price point as the swathe of Japanese pickups on the market, instead of adding leather bucket seats and a set of spot lights and slapping on an MRSP of twice that amount.
But actually there is an answer (other than the fact it would fail on multiple points of European legislation but lets just ignore that and revel in the utilitarianism that runs all of SE Asia...)
The Mahindra Bolero...

Ok let me rephrase

There is not a big enough market for a UK based OEM to make a profit selling 5k units per year at the price point of old Defender

No profit = no market for any sensible business

 

[Ghisallo]

They're more likely to slip under the radar doing some actual work. You'd probably pass a dozen of them on / off the roads and not even notice. The majority of the Defenders I see about town appear to be spec'd to be the complete opposite of that.

You’re not wrong; I spent a couple of hours arsing around south co. Antrim today and saw five Land Cruisers. I was probably not really looking out for them before.

 

[big_pete]

A steady 5,000 units per year is a market. It may be small but to state there "simply wasn't a market" is incorrect. And, you forget the burgeoning s/h market for Defenders. There isn't a replacement for them so that market is, as I said, still wide open.

It doesn't have to be a huge market in order to decrease price through volume. It just needs to be built to that price point to begin with. There is no reason why a Defender can't be built at the same price point as the swathe of Japanese pickups on the market, instead of adding leather bucket seats and a set of spot lights and slapping on an MRSP of twice that amount.
But actually there is an answer (other than the fact it would fail on multiple points of European legislation but lets just ignore that and revel in the utilitarianism that runs all of SE Asia...)
The Mahindra Bolero...

The second hand defender market has also taken quite a tumble.

I had the misfortune of driving one to ballyclare and back the other day. I would say my L322 Range Rover would do everything more or less a defender would and most of it better too for peanuts vs what you pay for a defender. It would tow better, it seats you more comfortably, it’s no worse on fuel and with a set of AT’s on it would probably go 90% of the places a defender would too?

I think they look class and love the amount of mods etc for them but every time I drive one I just think why are these so expensive, they are truly awful to drive.

 

[Coog]

I think the same could be said for any 4x4 to be honest. The big plus for the defenders was the ease of maintenance / repair, plus they were cool in a retro kind of way.

 

[Lyons]

Just had to deliver a sheep to Glenavy in this- my longest drive in 1. You don’t buy a Defender for the driving experience.

I also fondly remember the vet lambing a ewe in the back here last year. Wouldn’t want to clean up after that in a Vogue.

 

[andy9eleven]

Some people only buy new cars, some people like classic cars.

I think there would be something nice about bimbling about the countryside in a Defender doing some messages, collecting a few bales, and stopping off at the farm shop on way home again.

To add, in fact a 40 year old one that doesn't need an MoT or tax, would be dead handy to have just have about the place.

 

[surprising_skoda]

Ok let me rephrase

There is not a big enough market for a UK based OEM to make a profit selling 5k units per year at the price point of old Defender

On that point you are of course totally correct.

 

[saxo_man]

Just had to deliver a sheep to Glenavy in this- my longest drive in 1. You don’t buy a Defender for the driving experience.

View attachment 421228

I also fondly remember the vet lambing a ewe in the back here last year. Wouldn’t want to clean up after that in a Vogue.

View attachment 421229

The inside of the Grenadier looks a lot like the defender

 

[Coog]

It's also hoseable so you could technically clean the sheep internals out lol

 

[Jbridges522]

Some people only buy new cars, some people like classic cars.

I think there would be something nice about bimbling about the countryside in a Defender doing some messages, collecting a few bales, and stopping off at the farm shop on way home again.

To add, in fact a 40 year old one that doesn't need an MoT or tax, would be dead handy to have just have about the place.

This is 100% the case, as an actual car they are grim as, but as a wee toy they are great fun, run out with the dogs, beach, nipping about, dump runs etc.

Dont see any enjoyment in a city, on a motorway etc.

The best one we’ve had is the series, mot and tax expemt as u say, costs nothing to insure, nothing ever goes wrong cause there is nothing to go wrong, basically no electrics so the battery doesn’t drain every day etc and it doesn’t matter it only does 45mph or about 12mpg cause a tank does it months. Never fails to put a smile on my face tbh.

 

[saxo_man]

This is 100% the case, as an actual car they are grim as, but as a wee toy they are great fun, run out with the dogs, beach, nipping about, dump runs etc.

Dont see any enjoyment in a city, on a motorway etc.

The best one we’ve had is the series, mot and tax expemt as u say, costs nothing to insure, nothing ever goes wrong cause there is nothing to go wrong, basically no electrics so the battery doesn’t drain every day etc and it doesn’t matter it only does 45mph or about 12mpg cause a tank does it months. Never fails to put a smile on my face tbh.

View attachment 421242

Once I get myself a decent workshop/shed I'm going to look into buying an old defender or and 80s series iii, in blue/white - perfect

 

[Jbridges522]

Once I get myself a decent workshop/shed I'm going to look into buying an old defender or and 80s series iii, in blue/white - perfect

Be a nice combo! If your looking let me know sure, can give you a few pointers and know a guy that rebuilds them that might have some for sale.

 

[andy9eleven]

This is 100% the case, as an actual car they are grim as, but as a wee toy they are great fun, run out with the dogs, beach, nipping about, dump runs etc.

Dont see any enjoyment in a city, on a motorway etc.

The best one we’ve had is the series, mot and tax expemt as u say, costs nothing to insure, nothing ever goes wrong cause there is nothing to go wrong, basically no electrics so the battery doesn’t drain every day etc and it doesn’t matter it only does 45mph or about 12mpg cause a tank does it months. Never fails to put a smile on my face tbh.

View attachment 421242

Glorious. I'll start putting some funds aside for something like that to bimble in.

 

[Woodcutter]

Spotted this dark green LHD in Cowtown today. Have to say I quite like them.

 

[AMG]

Spotted this dark green LHD in Cowtown today. Have to say I quite like them.

View attachment 421269

They must be doing a tour of the North as I met that at Spelga last week too- thought to myself that wouldn't be the most comfortable machine for the journey.

 

[Boydie]

Pretty sure I saw one over New Year in Portush too

 

[davyk31]

Yep there is a blue one about Portrush often with the reg MY22 GDR

shame it’s actually a 2023 car