F1 2019: ALL CHAT HERE

[Petem86]

that felly jolyon palmer on the BBC als tweeted that he was entirely in agreement with the penalty, his article coming out during the week.

 

[DC.]

Rosberg has agreed with it too. On his YouTube channel I think.

 

[stevyg]

Some good drives from the Renault boys & Stroll. I think Kvyat is driving at his best, I’ve been impressed with him this year. Norris was having a good race until his upright melted, Martin Brundle is always so quick at catching those little incidents. I think Steiner was right to come on the radio and tell KMag enough of his bitching. Mercedes mechanics bleeding Hamiltons brakes on the grid had me worried, how do they do such a perfect job without any checking? Crazy. There ya go Lewis, I think we got all the air out!

Controversial decision by the FIA, I think there’s 2 questions 1) Did Vettel do anything wrong and 2) if you were a steward would you have given him a penalty.

The truth is Seb made an error (again) under pressure and booted it too early while he was still on the grass in an attempt to shut the door. He left the track, rejoined in an unsafe manner, didn’t leave a cars width, forced another car to take evasive action and gained an advantage. The FIA say that the additional footage and telemetry show he rejoined the track immediately crossed to the racing line, steered toward Hamilton after looking in his mirror and deemed an intentional block forcing Lewis to brake hard to avoid a race ending collision for both drivers. Hamilton was 0.4s behind Vettel going into turn 3 and 2.5s behind coming out of turn 4, if Vettel rejoined off the racing line Lewis would have sailed past him and been 3 seconds ahead before the next turn. A 5s penalty is the most lenient that the stewards can give, Lewis (the last driver to lose a race win from a penalty) was given a 25s penalty at Spa in 2008 in Ferraris favour even after immediately giving the place back to Kimi so a 5s penalty doesn’t seem so bad. Vettel also got 2 points on his license. He had the gap to 3s just after the incident, he should have kept his head down and pulled the 5s gap.

If I was a steward would I have punished Vettel during the race? Probably not since I wanted to let them race and it looked like Hamilton was going to get past him anyways, I think everyone was enjoying the battle. Mercedes would have complained a lot and after further investigation I would have punished Vettel after the race with points and a fine or something all in the spirit of letting them race. It killed the race even though they were simply enforcing the rules. Gutted for Ferrari since they’ve been trying to get back on their feet but Pole position and finishing ahead on race day is a positive for them to take away. They are appealing the decision but I don’t think it will go anywhere.

 

[svensktoppen]

Spot on there Stevy. Especially the bit about letting them race and then dealing with it all after. That definitely would have been the right way to do it.

I think the question of intent is the centre point here.

I don't have all the data and video and telemetry. Probably most commentators don't either. But the Stewards do, and they know how to read them. The race steward this weekend is an ex-F1 driver and multiple Le-Mans winner, he knows at least as much about racing as Brundle and Webber.

But it could have been handled better for sure.

 

[e320mark]

I have followed f1 for years now and still love the sport! While I disagree with the penalty I can also see why it was given!
Two years ago in Baku Vettel did intentionally drive into Hamilton and only got a 10 sec stop go!
I still think he got off too light for that!
As a few have said here already, all he had to do was back off, let Hamilton pass & his higher speed on the straights would have let him re pass Hamilton!
This is all easy for me to say as I wasn’t driving the car & caught in the moment etc. It was a good race ruined though!

 

[stevyg]

Spot on there Stevy. Especially the bit about letting them race and then dealing with it all after. That definitely would have been the right way to do it.

I think the question of intent is the centre point here.

I don't have all the data and video and telemetry. Probably most commentators don't either. But the Stewards do, and they know how to read them. The race steward this weekend is an ex-F1 driver and multiple Le-Mans winner, he knows at least as much about racing as Brundle and Webber.

But it could have been handled better for sure.

Yeah and I hate it so much when they deal with incidents ‘after the race’ but I think that would have been better, even if it meant a 5s penalty for Vettel a few hours later I’d still have liked to see them race like they both were fighting for the win all the way to the flag. I don’t think “intent” is really an excuse, I’m sure Grosjean didn’t intend to become a missile in Spain 2012 but if you make a mistake, you have consequences whether you intended to or not the rules don't have an exception for intentions. Vettel had every chance to pull the gap if he got the head down and banged in some perfect laps. You can't reverse a stewards decision from the cockpit, once they make it final there's nothing you can do unless you appeal officially within 96 hours. There’s a lot of pitchforks out but I doubt the few points difference in the result will turn out to be a championship decider considering how far Ferrari are behind. We'll see what footage comes out that the FIA have and what their verdict is after the appeal.

 

[pablo]

to be honest Id have liked to see a Ferrari win, for no other reason than I hate one horse races.

KMag was a total douchebag too, when you are paid by the team you should be respectful. Alonso was the same, way out of order.

 

[Gibbo]

Was a harsh enough penalty, but showed up Ferrari management again imo, should have told Vettel to let him through and fight it out after, I think coulthard said in Monaco it's a shame Max didnt make the corner as Hamilton would have had to let him through, so the same logic applies.

 

[svensktoppen]

A lot of people pointing out it's a carbon copy of Max on Kimi at the chicane in Japan last year. Ferrari and Vettel had no issues at all with Max getting a penalty that time. All for it then.

Except in Japan there was no wall...

Different sound now the shoe is on the other foot. Can't have it both ways though.

I think Jolyon makes a good argument:

Why Vettel deserved his penalty - Palmer

Former F1 driver Jolyon Palmer explains why he is in complete agreement with the penalty handed to Sebastian Vettel at the Canadian Grand Prix.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Maranellohouse]

Well for my 2p's worth I think the penalty was wrong. Although I've raced cars I'm no expert but when karun Chandhuk went through it frame by frame on the sky screen he was adamant Vettel was fighting the car all the way.

I've followed F1 pretty much all my life and have to say i thought the FIA's decision on Sunday was a new low. Unless someone "blatantly on purpose" does something (like vettel did on Hamilton at Bakku) leave them to it for dear sake, its supposed to be racing. Oh and get rid of the blue flags, make them work their way through.

 

[six_impressive_hours]

On balance I thought the stewards were correct as they're applying the rules as they are written, and let's not forget it was Vettel who lost control and then rejoined the track in an unsafe manner by gassing it to block Lewis.

This video from Suzuka last year and Vettel's opinion afterwards show his hypocrisy and double standards:

 

[svensktoppen]

Ferrari have dropped the appeal.

Ferrari will not appeal against penalty

Ferrari will not appeal against the penalty that cost Sebastian Vettel victory in the Canadian Grand Prix.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Stu Beck]

Not feeling a lot of love for vettel in this thread. It seems the general opinion is everything should be done to let Hamilton win at all costs. Can’t believe Hamilton will go down as one of the best ever drivers just because he’s struck lucky with car and team. I bet his mother even thinks he’s a t**t.

 

[pablo]

Horseshit

 

[mk2driver]

Not feeling a lot of love for vettel in this thread. It seems the general opinion is everything should be done to let Hamilton win at all costs. Can’t believe Hamilton will go down as one of the best ever drivers just because he’s struck lucky with car and team. I bet his mother even thinks he’s a t**t.

Yeah because that’s the only reason he has won

Every multiple world champion has been in a dominant team. It’s obvious as well because in the modern era as well the driver and car both have to be good, a driver cannot make up for a poor car anymore with bravery and skill

In terms of the last multiple world champions : Schumacher was in a dominant team, Vettel was in a dominant team and Hamilton has been in a dominant team. Even Alonso was in a top team when he won his two titles

The thing that sets these drivers apart is their ability to take that top car and win races and titles consistently which includes beating their team mates! Rosberg got the better of Hamilton a couple of years ago in that respect

Also there’s an element of luck but there’s also the fact that the top drivers get their choice if teams because of their talent and also they help drive those teams forward

Also remember Hamilton almost won a world title in his rookie season setting records along the way and that was definitely a two horse race with Ferrari

 

[pablo]

I quite like vettel too and I don’t think anyone likes to see a one horse race (boring) but Ferrari aren’t there on pace, strategy or even talent. Vetted shows he struggles under pressure so I’d say if anyone was gifted titles it was him. He was largely unchallenged in the RB days.

You can’t say it’s all the car because Bottas can’t perform and he isn’t a bad driver.

Hamilton might be a tosser off track but to write off his talent is just stupid.

 

[cauld1]

Shocked that the best drivers generally end up in the top teams, and that is a generally winning formula. Next you'll be telling me the sky is blue and water is wet.

I don't see how anyone can deny that Hamilton is a very, very talented driver. So what if he started out in McLaren, when they weren't *****. He was challenging and hassling a double world champion team mate straight out of the box. I think someone said earlier in this thread that Bottas is showing Hamilton what a good driver can do, how's that working out now?

Fair enough, don't like the guy, that's fine, but to come off with utterly baseless nonsense about racing ability because you don't like him is hilarious.

 

[svensktoppen]

Rosberg got the better of Hamilton a couple of years ago in that respect

Now there you could talk about getting lucky Or Button when he won it.

Seriously though, there's a huge difference between being able to steer, and being able to consistently win races, build championships, manage teams, etc.

Rosberg has written some very interesting pieces on just what it took for him to even be in a position to be able to challenge Lewis. Not just that season, it was a sustained effort over years. And it was why he stopped when he got there.

Every driver on the grid can steer. Even in that company, a few can steer better than others - Max, Vettel, and Lewis in the current crop; LeClerk and maybe Occon in the new generation.

If you've ever competed at the top level in sport, you know the difference between winning, and winning consistently. The difference between being up there at the top of the game, and being at the top at the end of a season. Consistently.

That's where Lewis, and arguably Alonso, are miles ahead of everyone else at the moment. Vettel too, obviously, you don't get lucky four times. Lewis is just in a different league again in his mental and competition game.

Of the rest, I think LeClerk might have that in him too from what he's shown so far. There's raw talent in spades but a lot more besides behind that.

 

[gpaevo]

Hum.....Hamilton has always been gifted a winning car in a winning top team. Schumacher consistently brought a ***** car to the top with his development approach etc. Non comparable in my opinion.

 

[pablo]

Gifted really? Mercedes weren’t dominant when he left mclaren to move there. People thought he was nuts.

 

[cauld1]

Not quite. Schumacher was fantastic, but to attribute Ferrari becoming dominant in the glory years solely to him would be a disservice to the team around him. You're forgetting Jean Todt, Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn. At the end of the day it's a team sport, it has always been so. It has always had stronger teams than others, funnily the drivers in that team would be more successful.

Hamilton didn't get 'gifted' a top team by being anything other than very, very good let's face it. Maybe he could join a crap team and try and mould them around him to be good, but why would a presently 5 time world champion do that, especially when he's still at the sharp end?

 

[gpaevo]

Gifted really? Mercedes weren’t dominant when he left mclaren to move there. People thought he was nuts.

The hard work had been done prior to his arrival.

Of course he's a talented driver nobody can argue that but he doesn't have the full package as a team player. You never hear people speaking about his development work, testing input etc unlike Schumacher and Alonso for example. Lewis wins races and spend the rest of time on the front page of OK Magazine with his moronic A-lister homies.

 

[gpaevo]

Not quite. Schumacher was fantastic, but to attribute Ferrari becoming dominant in the glory years solely to him would be a disservice to the team around him. You're forgetting Jean Todt, Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn. At the end of the day it's a team sport, it has always been so. It has always had stronger teams than others, funnily the drivers in that team would be more successful.

Hamilton didn't get 'gifted' a top team by being anything other than very, very good let's face it. Maybe he could join a crap team and try and mould them around him to be good, but why would a presently 5 time world champion do that, especially when he's still at the sharp end?

Of course, I was talking from a driver prospective. Todt, Brawn and Bridgestone where a massive influence in how Schumacher's career turned out.

McLaren had Hamilton on the books from the age of 10ish. His F1 seat was a forgone conclusion.

 

[Wild Thing]

I dont particularly like the guy, thats down to his pre and post race shenanigans but I totally respect him with what he brings to the track and to a degree he is also a sponsors dream package. In my book just not the full race package the way MS was

 

[cauld1]

Of course, I was talking from a driver prospective. Todt, Brawn and Bridgestone where a massive influence in how Schumacher's career turned out.

McLaren had Hamilton on the books from the age of 10ish. His F1 seat was a forgone conclusion.

I think that's the way things are now though, look at the junior teams that are connected to the main teams.

Schumacher was still the best in my opinion by the way. He was also a special case, there are many other drivers (most of them) who wouldn't be able to do what he did. But that doesn't take away from Hamilton imo.