One for the oldies. Ford 3.0 Essex v6 overheating.

[56oval]

As the title.

I have the unfortunate pleasure of being roped in to trouble shoot a friends Landrover.

It has had a 3.0 Essex v6 shoehorned in from a Ford.

It seems that it has always overheated since he bought it, the list of parts replaced by his garage are, thermostat, water pump, block flush, radiator checked by Brownlow rads and deemed ok.
So!!!

I whipped the plugs out and scoped the bores, couldn't see any immediate signs of water in the cylinders.

Compression tested it, 130-150 psi across all 6.

Have not performed a sniff test yet and that is looming.

Ran it up yesterday and within 5 minutes, the temps rocketed. Rad hot, top to bottom. Tried to bleed the bypass which heads from the block below the stat, out to to choke unit then on to the heater matrix and back to the waterpump. Nothing, not even a dribble.

So i flushed the heater matrix, plenty of brown rusty coolant.

Pre filled it and hooked it back up, ran the engine, temps rocketed immediatly.

Bypassed the matrix, no different.

By this time i was stumped, flushed the entire system for half an hour, refilled and ran it up, no difference.

Its a circulation problem for sure as the matrix feed and return pipes are tepid rather than hot like the rad pipes and there is nothing coming from the bleeder.

There is a port in the top of the waterpump that is blocked off, i have tried to find schematics of the cooling system to no real avail.

Outside of a sniff test, i'm all out of ideas and ready to pull the heads off it and inspect the gaskets and block.

@stevieturbo , you are bound to have form with these???

Any ideas would be welcome, fyi ignition, timing and fuelling are all spot on.

 

[southsky sunrise]

@Nicky ?

 

[Nicky]

Pull the water pump and make sure it’s correct and will fill the appropriate hole properly. I’d a headache with a Sierra doing similar to this and it turned out that the blades on the pump were tapered as opposed to square and then bastid wouldn’t circulate properly.

Don’t let someone else’s work/inadequacies bump steer you, even if they used brand new parts.

 

[56oval]

Don’t let someone else’s work/inadequacies bump steer you, even if they used brand new parts.

Exactly why i'm going through the whole system methodicly before i even think about pulling the heads.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Ollie]

Tried running it without a thermostat?

 

[Nicky]

Tried running it without a thermostat?

Wouldn’t be the first failed new stat I’ve come across either right enough.

 

[56oval]

Wouldn’t be the first failed new stat I’ve come across either right enough.

The rad hose above the stat bleeds water into the rad ( can see it with the cap off ) at a fair rate even from cold. Rad gets hot top to bottom inc bottom hose. You'd almost think there wasn't a stat in there but apparantly its new and Browlow Radiators said they checked it and it was fine, i will however check it, and run it up without although i don't think its the culprit.

 

[Nicky]

The rad hose above the stat bleeds water into the rad ( can see it with the cap off ) at a fair rate even from cold. Rad gets hot top to bottom inc bottom hose. You'd almost think there wasn't a stat in there but apparantly its new and Browlow Radiators said they checked it and it was fine, i will however check it, and run it up without although i don't think its the culprit.

So it’s just the back of the engine not getting as warm, and she’s bubbling within 5 mins from cold?

Edit - And more importantly, who puts an Essex V6 in an LR? That’s just ridiculous... lol

 

[NotKG]

the old 3L v6 in the widebody capris i remember they used to come in regular with a gasket blown on the right head at the bulkhead. they did run hot. ford changed the pumps, then people put crap autopart ones in them again. yea, ford had a issue with quite a few late 70's.
pump or right head.
honestly havent been near them since.
thank gawd.

i upgraded to commercials and liners in commer walk throughs back in the day.
i really do wish the delorean time machine was real for that job change.

 

[stevieturbo]

Does seem an odd choice of engine.

But more importantly...what parts from an original engine did they swap or change during the install ?

Does it have the correct water pump ? Is it rotating the correct direction ? Was it a good running engine prior to this work....has it ever ran correctly here ?

Everything plumbed sensibly, stat working and in correct location ? ie hot water to top of rad, back out bottom and into engine ?

Cooling fan ? blowing correct direction ?

Valve timing ( compression probably shows it is ok...but you never know ) ? You're 100% sure on ign timing and firing order ? Does it actually run smoothly despite the heat ?

Sure it's filled correctly with no air locks ? And all pipework, including to/from heater matrix plumbed correctly ? As often that is a bypass for the rad.

And heating and bubbling how fast ? given it usually takes 10-15mins for a normal engine to get a bit of heat into it at idle.

 

[NI_Volvo_Nut]

The fact the heater pipes are not warming would suggest a ciculation issue, so blockage or waterpump

 

[Avant1]

It’s a Ford engine !!

 

[Avant1]

Could have a cracked block

 

[56oval]

Thanks for the replies folks, further investigation reveals that the original Land Rover heater matrix is not a permanently open matrix and only opens to flow when operated by a lever in the cab. A bypass pipe back to the pump looks necessary for when the heater is shut, it isn't present. However i did bypass the matrix and it still got hot.

Also there seems to be a plugged port at the very back of the inlet manifold ( not the servo takeoff ) which i need to investigate further and make sure the system is 100% bled through.

@stevieturbo runs smooth as a clock and ignition timing is correct at 14 degrees btdc at idle, vac off. starts on the button.

Such fun.

 

[johnm]

Parts catalogs - fordopedia.org

No idea if the above would help but has a couple of the old v6 ford engines in it that goes through all the coolant pipes etc.

 

[56oval]

Another day at it yesterday. Last weekend i pulled the thermostat housing off to reveal no thermostat. No wonder the bypass and matrix were giving bother.

I ordered an 82 degree stat from the guys at my old stomping ground ( Burton Engineering ) great to see them still going strong.

Fitted the stat, bypass heated up, matrix got hot and eventually the stat opened and the system seemed to ne circulating normally. After half an hour or so running the engine was getting hot, even with the Kenlow fan on flat out. It didn't boil but the temp gauge was off the needle ( i suspect the sender and aftermarket gauge are out of whack as when the stat opened the guage was pinned to the red ).

Drained the entire system as i had put a coolant flush in. Filled it back up, ran for another 10 mins, the motor then started to drop a cylinder. I had a hunch which one it was as it was the only one that looked like it had minor water damage and pitting on the cylinder wall.

Pulled the plug leads in turn to reveal it was indeed the suspect cylinder.

I whipped the plug out and got it to bdc, stuck the borescope in and presto, cleanish valves and water droplets on the cylinder wall.

So a long winded way around the houses but eventually found the culprit ( i hope ).

Next up, pull both heads and see if there is any damage or warp.

 

[56oval]

ITS FIXED!!!.

 

[56oval]

 

[56oval]

It was a long slog but i got there. Thanks for all your input chaps .

I'll fill you in with the details later.

 

[johnm]

I'd say that cider was well earned.

 

[56oval]

So the long story.

Ended up towing it back to my garage after two proper mechanics had worked at it and gave up!!!!

Brownlow radiators had checked the rad and was deemed 100%.

After a couple of days of testing ( earlier in this thread ) i saw no other solution than to pull the heads off.

After stripping the ancilleries , pulling the rocker gear off, dizzy out, inlet manifold off. I pulled the heads off.

The gaskets were a mess, passage ways were blocked and signs of water ingress into the cylinder areas.

I took them To Pat at Comiskeys engineering, he took one glance and said " aaahh the old 3.0 essex" he's done his time with these over the years.

I left them in his good hands to clean and skim. Meanwhile i ordered up new Reinz gaskets, head bolts x16 ( not cheap ) and associated parts from Burtons.

One thing that bugged me was the water temp gauge ( it hardly seemed acurate ). I opted for a proper capillary gauge, removed the rear bolt from the manifold, drilled and tapped it for the sender.

I thought it would be prudent to pull the sump. The engine showed good oil pressure but wanted to see what condition the pickup was in, turns out it was fine.

Many nights cleaning parts and stripping out yards of old hacked in wiring ensued.

I spent hours flushing the block out with all sorts of mixtures, the rust was insane. It really was a case of a few hours would have the block out and stripped but i took a chance and just kept flushing and using compressed air until it ran clear with zero debris.

I picked the heads up last week at a very reasonable £132 all in for both. 10thou off ( Pat said this was the norm ) 1/4mm in non engineering terms ( or .25 mm).

I then spent one afternoon cleaning everything, valves , heads, springs, retainers etc. Decoked the exhaust ports and cleaned up thouroughly any carbon around the seats and combustion chamber. The seats were in bad shape.

I got my daughter involved just for the sake of it as thats what i used to do with my dad and his pinto engines.

She lapped some of the valves for me, helped install new valve stem oil seals and put the valves back in the heads. Bless her.

A few nights later i had the heads back on with new gaskets from Burton and it was time to tackle the valve clearances.


I thought it was going to be a mission but as it turns out it was a doddle.

After running all new water lines, filling the system, cutting and refitting the mechanical oil pressure switch, sump on with new gasket, fresh oil and filter, cleaning out the fuel pump and running new lines it was time to crank for oil pressure. It came up straight away, further cranking got fuel up to the pump and into the float bowl.

Reconnected the ignition and bam, she went first turn of the key.

Ran it up for 10 mins, set the timing it got hot.
Let it cool, trouble shot a few little ignition and tuning issues, backfilled all the hoses, matrix, bypass etc.

Started her up, ran for 20mins up to 82 degrees when the new stat opened and then got the rad circulating. 10 mins later its up to full working temp. Run it on until temps climbed, switch the fan on ( temporary until i connect the stat an relay ) temps came back down right away.

Cycled the engine for well over an hour today and shes happy, i'm relieved . It runs like a peach.

Tomorrow its retorque the heads and reset the valves, then finish the wiring and plumbing so its permanent and tidy ( no point if it was going to boil on me ).

Thats hopefully it, job done.

Possibly the easiest engine iv'e ever worked on, so, so simple but a LOT of work.

Better than an aircooled vw

 

[Mark_C]

Comiskeys really are the best machine shop (that's more than a one man band type, as ciaran mcaloran in scotch street is the best one man place by absolute miles)

 

[56oval]

Comiskeys really are the best machine shop (that's more than a one man band type, as ciaran mcaloran in scotch street is the best one man place by absolute miles)

Absolutely agree. Straight up no Bull. Just gets the job done

 

[Ben P]

Nice job Ben

 

[Wild Thing]

Will those old heads run unleaded fuel ok? Comiskey’s are the one stop solution without a doubt, do all our engineering work