Road Safety as witnessed by a Back-Seat Driver - Part 2

[Graham]

See the blog feature on this - You may well have read my mutterings just the other day with reference to road safety and how I spent a shift alongside the Police Service of Northern Ireland's Roads Policing Team.

Documenting photographically as well as scribbling on my trusty old notepad, it gave me the chance to see first-hand what drivers and police face on a daily basis regarding dangers and legalities on our roads.
Read the Full Article Here



Read the Entire Article Here

 

[Chris666]

Another good read

 

[stevieturbo]

How many dangerous driving charges were issues for morons not using lights correctly ? Most often no lights at all when they should !!

And it's been well covered before, the towing rules need a huge shakeup so people can actually understand them !

 

[lennyd]

So if you have a jeep that weighs 2 ton (able to tow 3.5 ton) and a trailer that can carry 3 ton that's empty but no towing licence then you can get done as you might carry more than you're allowed and as you don't have a towing licence then the max combined weight of everything might exceed 3.5t

 

[Chris666]

So if you have a jeep that weighs 2 ton (able to tow 3.5 ton) and a trailer that can carry 3 ton that's empty but no towing licence then you can get done as you might carry more than you're allowed and as you don't have a towing licence then the max combined weight of everything might exceed 3.5t

Yes, the opposite also applies if you're towing heavier than the trailer is plated for.

A 2000KG Ifor Williams beavertail transporter weighs in at nearly 700kg itself + weight of towing vehicle and you're potentially overweight carrying a Fiat 500

 

[Graham]

So if you have a jeep that weighs 2 ton (able to tow 3.5 ton) and a trailer that can carry 3 ton that's empty but no towing licence then you can get done as you might carry more than you're allowed and as you don't have a towing licence then the max combined weight of everything might exceed 3.5t

Yes

 

[stevieturbo]

So if you have a jeep that weighs 2 ton (able to tow 3.5 ton) and a trailer that can carry 3 ton that's empty but no towing licence then you can get done as you might carry more than you're allowed and as you don't have a towing licence then the max combined weight of everything might exceed 3.5t

As they say above, and as bizarre as it is...it does seem that way.

You'd get in trouble because you might tow something heavy....not because you are doing it. It's a minefield !

 

[lennyd]

That's nuttier than squirrel sh!te

 

[Graham]

As they say above, and as bizarre as it is...it does seem that way.

You'd get in trouble because you might tow something heavy....not because you are doing it. It's a minefield !

It's mind boggling

 

[genman]

Doesn't all that towing stuff also depend on when the driver did their original driving test.
Similar rules for 7.5T small lorries.
Basically before 97 and you can drive most non HGV / psv stuff

 

[Chris666]

Doesn't all that towing stuff also depend on when the driver did their original driving test.
Similar rules for 7.5T small lorries.
Basically before 97 and you can drive most non HGV / psv stuff

8250KG pre Jan 1997 and 3500KG after.

The grandfathered entitlements to drive larger categories are not a licence in itself, they should be noted as not for hire or reward on your licence. This is the reason why education board/sports club/youth club drivers now require a full D1 licence for a minibus.

You can drive an HGV all day long, as long as you aren't being paid in any way, that requires CPC, theory,test etc

 

[zafturbo]

Guys say a young lad was driving a standard Vauxhall panel van like a vivaro or a Renault ect with a twin axel Ivor Williams dropside .what would he be allowed to carry weight wise approx .
What sort of weight would the van be roughly ??1700kgs and say 600-700kgs for the trailer so around 2400kgs total maybe .what is the total for this combination .van only has a single axel not double btw.

 

[stevieturbo]

Lots of info here

Vauxhall Vivaro specifications

 

[Graham]

Guys say a young lad was driving a standard Vauxhall panel van like a vivaro or a Renault ect with a twin axel Ivor Williams dropside .what would he be allowed to carry weight wise approx .
What sort of weight would the van be roughly ??1700kgs and say 600-700kgs for the trailer so around 2400kgs total maybe .what is the total for this combination .van only has a single axel not double btw.

All depends on the MAM of each and the permitted towing.

If the MAM of the trailer is 3500 then towing the trailer empty behind a vivaro is illegal

 

[richie_mck]

It is honestly easier just getting the test than to try and understand the rules and hope you're right.

 

[Graham]

It is honestly easier just getting the test than to try and understand the rules and hope you're right.

And buy an isuzu dmax as the vast majority of vans with a sizeable twin axel on tow are over limit

 

[stevieturbo]

It is honestly easier just getting the test than to try and understand the rules and hope you're right.

Just because you have the test, doesnt mean what you're towing or towing with will be legal though. It gives you more options to tow...but you still need to throw dice in the air and hope you've interpreted their rules the same way any moron trying to enforce them....in the very rare event you might get stopped.

 

[Graham]

Just because you have the test, doesnt mean what you're towing or towing with will be legal though. It gives you more options to tow...but you still need to throw dice in the air and hope you've interpreted their rules the same way any moron trying to enforce them....in the very rare event you might get stopped.

Problem is, few of those enforcing know them inside out from my experience over the years

 

[stevieturbo]

Problem is, few of those enforcing know them inside out from my experience over the years

Absolutely..which is why those people should be pushing government to make the rules sensible and easy to understand instead of the current nonsense which really serves no real purpose because it is such a mess.

 

[Graham]

Absolutely..which is why those people should be pushing government to make the rules sensible and easy to understand instead of the current nonsense which really serves no real purpose because it is such a mess.

100% I towed cars for years illegally not realising due to ill advice from a policeman

 

[Coog]

I used to keep a print out of the rules in the glove box for this reason. Using actual weights would be a bit of a pain for anyone any distance from a weigh bridge, which is why I assume they go with plated weights which are much easier checked at the side of the road? Rule of thumb seems to be that if it's safe looking then they won't bother you. Different story if you've an accident though.

I was taught to load over axles ensuring a certain nose weight. Might have just been my instructor though but works OK for me.

 

[stevieturbo]

I used to keep a print out of the rules in the glove box for this reason. Using actual weights would be a bit of a pain for anyone any distance from a weigh bridge, which is why I assume they go with plated weights which are much easier checked at the side of the road? Rule of thumb seems to be that if it's safe looking then they won't bother you. Different story if you've an accident though.

I was taught to load over axles ensuring a certain nose weight. Might have just been my instructor though but works OK for me.

But then plated weights are beyond stupid...if most of the time the trailer is barely loaded. Plus many many trailers out there are not plated.
It's like prosecuting because you might do something....vs actually doing it.

Even dafter....I bought a towbar for my van recently ( which some day I might even fit lol ), and one strange thing many listings said was a 50kg max nose weight, but 1200kg tow capacity.

So not allowed any more than 50kg on the nose/ball ? Which is less than someone even standing on it ? Sounds totally absurd and would likely lead to a very unstable trailer with such little weight there.

 

[Chris666]

Weight on the level onto the ball is a fraction of the outfit gross. This is taken as 7% of laden weight so a 1200kg caravan has a nose weight of 84kg which would mean towing hardware rated 100kg+

Then, your towing vehicle has to be capable of towing that weight, as does effectively your licence.

Absolute clusterfvck of a system