Audi A1 1.4 TFSI (COD) hesitation

[jinjur]

Hi all

Following my timing belt query, I managed to go ahead just before christmas and get the timing belt done in Audi for my mums wee A1.

It was cheaper than previously expected as the water pump is not on the same side as the timing belt etc so at least that was something and with Audi doing it, was supposed to give peace of mind.

Now, both mum and me have been on and off shielding and just being plain sensible in between but she was out in it shortly after the belt was done and told me that it felt "odd". This is my mum we are speaking about here, she has driven cars with flat tyres for miles and not noticed. lol

Ultimately, the car was parked up shortly after and not driven (at all) and I told her I would check it once safe to do so before we spoke to Audi.

So, a couple of weeks ago, I managed to steal it from her and I immediately saw what she was talking about.

1st gear seems fine but when you move into 2nd gear and start to move through the rev range, the car sputters a bit under 3k rpm but when it gets to around 4k rpm, it basically hits a wall and splutters through until 5k. Honestly, as a french car driver, it feels like a misfire.

Now, I am always very conscious about driving a car hard when cold but, driving up to around 4-5k would not be something too far in my opinion............unless you think that is wrong.

To pick up on that, it does it at random times when the car is fully up to temperature as well.

So the car was thrown back to Audi to investigate and after a week of testing (yes, a week) they said that they could not recreate it. Alarm bells started ringing as soon as they started to explain to me that the car had cylinder on demand.

I had to point out that COD does not trigger under full throttle and even if it did (which it doesn't) the A1 tells you when it is in 2 cylinder mode on the dash.

He advised that there were no codes stored on the ECU so there isn't anything being flagged as an issue by the car. But there is clearly something wrong.

It's awkward as I really cannot be in a car with someone else so cannot bring a tech out etc. (shielding) They suggested I take it and see how it goes and we could pick it up if guidelines change.

As soon as I left with the car, within a mile or so, it did it.

My main concern was that they have cocked the timing but what makes me doubt that is when the car does not misfire, it drives well. If the timing was toss it wouldn't do that.

So, to the VAG smarties out there, what could it be?

I suspect coils, injectors, COD servos or some bucked wiring but just don't know

The fact is, this didn't happen before the TB was done. I know. I drove it down. Briskly.

 

[Ben P]

From internet tails these engines can be nightmares I believe :-(

I'd imagine ideally you'd need some one in the car monitoring values etc with a laptop when it does it.

Perhaps @pobmk4 could advise?

 

[mikey]

Change point was when the timing belt was done. I would be looking at the timing. These engines are very sensitive to timing being spot on although there are no cam/crank or misfire codes stored so would doubt it’s that. Having said that these engines are common with us for juddering issues and if a SW update doesn’t sort them then it can be a number of things including high pressure fuel pump and fuel pressure sensor. Have yet to see an ACT (active cylinder technology) cam shutoff valve cause issues though.

 

[jinjur]

thanks for the input guys.......its quite surprising to me that it isn't firing codes.

when my car does this (french) it throws all the codes.....ALL OF THEM! telling you what cylinder etc.

it's that severe.

 

[jinjur]

Change point was when the timing belt was done. I would be looking at the timing. These engines are very sensitive to timing being spot on although there are no cam/crank or misfire codes stored so would doubt it’s that. Having said that these engines are common with us for juddering issues and if a SW update doesn’t sort them then it can be a number of things including high pressure fuel pump and fuel pressure sensor. Have yet to see an ACT (active cylinder technology) cam shutoff valve cause issues though.

are you in audi belfast buddy?

 

[Dervhead]

Do all garages say it “never happens” when they have a car in for fault checking lol

 

[jinjur]

I dunno......perhaps the default first response :/

I made the fatal mistake of posting the same question on an Audi A1 specific forum and well............wow...........apparently I am a monster for driving to the giddy limits of 4k-5k rpm on a fairly cold engine to prove an issue to a dealer.

The correct procedure is apparently to cover the engine with a blanket made from unicorn pubes and drip feed it petrol distilled through an angels wing all while whispering sweet nothings up its exhaust pipe until it is at precisely 98.77 degrees Celsius measured on a thermometer that has been calibrated by CERN no more than 3 minutes before hand.

 

[richiemucker]

Book it in with Portadown Audi and stay clear of that shower of incompetent ***** in Belfast Audi. They should be able to sort this for you bud.

 

[jinjur]

Might actually have to do that buddy as Belfast have no suggestions until I can sit in a car with them and point out that a car should not shart itself at 4k

Are portadown audi connected to belfast in any way?
Acj pish, they are Agnew too....................

 

[richiemucker]

Both connected but they seem to be far better organized and actually try to work with you to find the problem.

 

[jinjur]

Noted, thanks for the advice @richiemucker

Will give Belfast till the end of today and failing that will pick up with Portadown tomorrow

 

[Ruairi83]

Noted, thanks for the advice @richiemucker

Will give Belfast till the end of today and failing that will pick up with Portadown tomorrow

Try an get Daryl the technician in Portadown if he is still there as he is who helped me with clutch in A4 and was no bull**** and fix Machanic

 

[jinjur]

Thanks @ruairi83

 

[jinjur]

Right, this one is still trundling along. I mean, c'mon............it's me we are talking about.

To be fair, I have been struggling to sort this as every time I take the car, my mum is without as Audi are not doing courtesy cars (so I have been told)

Since I initially reported this to Audi (and yourselves) it has been back at Belfast Audi about 3 times. Various service items such as brake fluid, major service and each time I have flagged this hesitation. Every time, they came back and said "no issue found" but during the major service, they did state that new plugs might help.

I had honest to god hoped that would be it (my fault for not actually taking the time to check) until my mum actually mentioned the hesitation to me.



My mum!

Car could be missing 3 wheels and she would not notice.

She noticed this so I can categorically say......ITS A THING.




Now, go easy. I know you have said that I should take it to Prentice and I will be honest, I haven't and that is my next port of call but without a courtesy car it becomes a ball ache, especially if mum is without. She is in for another operation soon so I will hope to use that lack of car requirement to help.

I literally threw it back at Belfast Audi last week and they kept the car for 5 days. They checked the timing. The checked the computers. The say they checked everything and implicitly told me, there is nothing wrong with the car and as far as they were concerned, it was done.

Driving home, hesitation at 4k RPM.




So I just flipped the basket and emailed Audi UK.

Apart from persistently and lazily going to these clowns despite being told not to, am I being unreasonable here?




Anyway, the response from Audi UK was absolutely trash IMO.

I basically put it to them what exactly had happened, included the same video. Car had been to Audi Belfast 4 times now for a "non issue". I cited the fact that Audi Belfast will not let me go out with a mech in the car to illustrate the issue (Covid) nor will they let me test drive another 1.4TSI COD engine'd car to validate if it happens in that (Covid). Of course, if it was the same, I would duly apologise and be on my way. If it wasn't, then surely it's a fapping issue.

The reply:

As previously stated, as our Audi Approved Centres have trained technicians, it is their duty to establish and repair a fault, if one is found. We can only state that if the Audi Centre are unable to find a fault with the vehicle, then no fault exists.

Until a fault is found on the vehicle, Audi UK are unable to assist any further.

Audi UK are unable to arrange bookings with Audi Centres, you will need to do this yourself. If Belfast Audi are not happy to go out face to face with a customer, this is not something we can force them to do.

I am sorry if you are dissatisfied and that we have been unable to meet your expectations and resolve this as you would wish. Therefore, we refer you to The Motor Ombudsman

I mean, I am actually of the mindset to take the car to a really well versed indy right now (or someone who will come out with me in the car) to firstly validate that it is an issue and I am not a tool bag as well as perhaps see if they had an idea. Would be fairly embarrassing if these elite "trained technicians" missed something ( read as computer did not display an error )

I will of course drop Prentice a bell now to see what they think (and what their policies are for me being out with them)



Never thought I would say this but recent experience with an out of warranty issue with our BMW and the help and service we received then ( specifically from Bavarian, even included a courtesy car MID PANDEMIC....woooOOOooo ) has absolutely shattered my illusion that Audi were even remotely close to the same standard. They are not. not by a mile.


Opinions?

And yes, feel free to abuse me. I deserve it for being too saft.

 

[Ben P]

What a nightmare.
Perhaps either try Portadown Audi or a Vag specialist and if they confirm an issue or not.
If there is then get them to note it down so you can chase Belfast Audi for a warranty fix?

 

[jinjur]

That is the plan buddy.

Prentice or some kind of Audi god.............any recommendations in that regard peeps? I don't want to dwell on it but I think this needs a human mechanic to validate what I am feeling when I drive the car. Audi are saying it isn't logging any misfires or anything nasty, but............my recent exploits with my Clio can prove that a car can be happy as Larry, showing no faults at all but running like turd.

It is now of course just out of its Audi approved used warranty but my mum extended it with Audi themselves straight away for her peach of mind ( before this kicked off ) but that warranty is null and void if there is no issue if they deem not.

 

[Ben P]

*Audi service and repair specialists lurgan
*DUBTECH ballymoney

 

[Mel_45]

Right, this one is still trundling along. I mean, c'mon............it's me we are talking about.

To be fair, I have been struggling to sort this as every time I take the car, my mum is without as Audi are not doing courtesy cars (so I have been told)

We bought a car from Agnews Portadown in Feb / March time this year and there was a knocking sound I could hear. TBF the manager said not supposed to be out with customers, but he took it a test drive with me in the rear to identify the noise initially. He missed it himself, but once I identified the noise he agreed that it was there and could then hear it everytime from that point on.

At that point in time the car had to go back twice to get the issue resolved fully. The work was carried out by the Audi garage and an ibiza fr and renault captur were given out as courtesy cars. So not sure why they would be saying no courtesy cars due to covid when we are in a better position now than Feb / March of this year.

 

[jinjur]

We bought a car from Agnews Portadown in Feb / March time this year and there was a knocking sound I could hear. TBF the manager said not supposed to be out with customers, but he took it a test drive with me in the rear to identify the noise initially. He missed it himself, but once I identified the noise he agreed that it was there and could then hear it everytime from that point on.

At that point in time the car had to go back twice to get the issue resolved fully. The work was carried out by the Audi garage and an ibiza fr and renault captur were given out as courtesy cars. So not sure why they would be saying no courtesy cars due to covid when we are in a better position now than Feb / March of this year.

I suspected as much Mel..................pretty sure if a sale depended on a test drive I would be ripping about in a car.

Exactly the same with this, as soon as I felt the miss once that was it. I can categorically say that I didn't feel it before. You can also then say that could it have been there before the cam belt change and I didn't feel it.............yes, perhaps.........but I basically drove the car initially for a few months while mum had her first op and the Clio gearbox was in bits. All that time I was waiting for something to be amiss but I was blown away, car did not falter once.

Timing belt changed and I immediately notice it. Not saying it's belt related as it has now been checked twice but as I said to Audi ( and I always try not to talk like I know anything about these cars ), I know from experience that when doing belts, quite often a raft of other things have to get pulled and trailed off to get the work done so it could be anything involved in that process.

There just does not seem to be a desire to perform any kind of troubleshooting at all here, it's basically computer check, visual check, done.

My gut is telling me map sensor or coil pack or something mixture related, maybe even a leak, that's what it feels like. Especially within such a specific range. I mean, what else is going on between 4-5k rpm that could be involved, is there vvt, any kind of additional breathing happening or intake valves? turbo vanes changing or something, anything.......I put this to Audi and they were meh.

To me, if I was chasing this in the Clio, I would be out driving it with the laptop on the car. That does not seem to happen in Audi.

Christ, the thought of owning an RS4 or something and having an issue that these guys have to resolve gives me chills.

Its just, a poor show in my opinion.

 

[mikey]

There are technical bulletins for the ‘jerk’ that accompanies the ACT (Active cylinder technology) operation in Volkswagen. Being honest it can be a feature rather than a flaw in them dependant on throttle position, load etc how hard you feel cylinder 2 and 3 cut in and out.
We certainly are test driving with customers at the moment so I would try and get out with someone in Audi to point out and let them experience exactly what you are feeling. You say the jerk is at 4K rpm? Being honest I wouldn’t take a car to 4K on a test drive for a suspected ACT issue as they tend to chime the cylinders in and out at much lower revs, so wouldn’t surprise me if the Audi boys are doing the same and missing the issue completely.
As regards warranty as well, VW audit teams have came down hard on dealers doing ‘pre emptive’ repairs, so if we can’t replicate the issue, we carry out no repair even if we suspect or indeed know what it may be. VW have started asking for a lot of photos and videos of faults to accompany diagnostic logs and refusing claims that don’t have them to verify the fault actually occurring.

 

[jinjur]

Hey bud..... Audi did initially try to advise that it was COD initially but I clarified that it was on WOT and when cold......both are not COD situations......and if it was COD under WOT then.....its more bucked than we thought. lol

I do feel the tiniest of tickles when COD kicks in and out but to me, that is fine......as I know what it is and it is by design.......you know.

The dash also advises 2 cyl mode when it is active

 

[MrWig]

@jinjur any progress with this?

I have the same issue on a 64 plate Leon with COD / ACT.

It just hits a wall at 4k rpm when moderately cold.

 

[jinjur]

No progress at all brother. Audi told me that if they couldn't find a problem, it doesn't exist. As I said, I used to bad mouth Bavarian.............well, in the past 2 years, Bavarian have handed Audi their asses in general with regards to customer service..........and that is with a car OUT of BMW Warranty :/

Doing a bit of digging myself, it is sounding very much fuel pressure or pump related. From what I understand, the HP pump is driven from the cams or crank and can be a **** and does wear. Not sure if you have any thoughts?

 

[MrWig]

Ive got an ODB logger thing and have measured the fuel pressure, Air fuel mix, boost pressure etc and can't find anything that looks out of place.

My next plan is to take it to a rolling road and have a play there.

Ive had it since new and what ever it is is slowly getting worse!

 

[jinjur]

Noticed the other day that mums is slow to start..................doesnt splutter or anything daft but it sounds like it just slowly comes to life if you know what i mean

My 12 billion year old box of turd Clio on the other hand, brr brr vroom. Bursts into life, same time, every time.

That was kind of what made me think fuel pressure, whether that is the tank pump or the HP pump on the engine

Kinda hate Audis now.