Civic D15B7 Engine Swap

[O.T.G.]

a mate is lookin to change his 1500 VTEC civic engine

option 1 was to drop in a 1800 VTEC type r integra engine

option 2 was to change the ECU which I was told can increase bhp to almost the same power as the integra engine wud put out.

does anyone have any experience with either of these and could offer any advice about cost, power etc etc...

much appreciated...

Robbo

 

[bludgod]

Hiya,

I dont think option2 will work. The ECU isn't limiting the cars power that much. And dont forget option 3, turbo you should be able to get 3 or 5 psi (small but effective) without having to go to great lengths and depending where you get the engine from might not be too much higher in cost.

Check this out for an idea:
http://www.japkits.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=993

Bit of a vtec upgrade and you still have the option to turbo on top of that.

hope thats of some help to ya.

pete

 

[Bibby]

fit the b18 or b16 engine
you will need engine, gearbox, driveshafts, hubs, wiring looms including the loom inside the car to do all this!!!

 

[Bronk]

i agreee with bibby

b18 wud b more fun

 

[westy]

b18 isnt that much more powerful than the 16, and the 16 def doesnt hang about... probably be cheaper to buy a car with one in it though as I wouldnt imagine many vtec drivers would sell you their engine

 

[Gaz]

Lee,

Forget option 2, it made me laugh out loud - you can't chip a 1500 single-cam vtec to produce Type R levels of power. You'll see a small gain but it still won't even be as quick as a half-decent VTi, never mind Integra Type R. Even with a lairy cam on the d15b and ported/polished head, etc, it will still be lagging behind.

If you're going for the engine swap, bear in mind that although the b16a and b18 range of engines all share engine mounts, the D15B single-cam has totally different mounts so new ones will be needed. It might also be a bit of a nightmare sorting out the wiring.

A good Integra Type R engine, gearbox, driveshafts, etc will cost at least £1500 - probably closer to £2k; thats just the going rate for them. Add in your labour charges and additional costs incurred and you're probably looking at £2500 for this conversion. Its not astronomical, but it is a fair whack of money and I can't help but think that he'd be better taking his car, selling it and adding on the £2500 to get himself a decent VTi. He'll have enough change left to see 170-180bhp out of it without having to worry about engine swaps and any associated problems. He'll also have the proper interior, dials and all the other goodies that come standard on the VTi.

If he is intent on going for it, then make sure he gets the b18c5 engine. On paper, its only 29bhp more than the b16, but it produces its power slightly higher up the rev range and also has higher torque figures. I've owned both and they're both impressive engines, but given the choice the b18c would get picked every time.

Gaz

 

[bludgod]

Totally agree with gaz, sell that car to some granny and get a VTi would be that or chuck a turbo on! Rev hard to a turbo kit which would be a good start (you can upgrade your to your own choice of items later) or just use it as a shopping list to get the items you need from ebay etc.

http://www.revhard.com/turbokit/civicturbokit.asp?model=EG&engine=D
thats the rev hard kit there, tho there are others available.

go on, turboooooo you know you want it

pete

 

[O.T.G.]

lol appreciate the good advice guys...think he sud sell up myself and buy something hairy

@ gaz - you must have had some cars under ure belt now?

 

[Gaz]

@ gaz - you must have had some cars under ure belt now?

aye, gone through quite a few lately and I'm getting itchy feet at the moment again so the Integra will probably move on sooner rather than later!

Gaz

 

[VEN©M]

B18C5 all the way. Gaz is right, the notion of swapping the ECU to develop a magical 190bhp is ludicrous!

B16 is also a very good platform but the B18C5 develops its torque lower down, has a better power curve and revs out further and with an uprated valve train has the potential to run some very lairy cams all the way to 10k - RELIABLY. B18C5 is a more-balanced, finely tuned and hand-worked engine from factory and is the obvious choice if you go down the engine swap route.

 

[Bibby]

B18C5 all the way. Gaz is right, the notion of swapping the ECU to develop a magical 190bhp is ludicrous!

B16 is also a very good platform but the B18C5 develops its torque lower down, has a better power curve and revs out further and with an uprated valve train has the potential to run some very lairy cams all the way to 10k - RELIABLY. B18C5 is a more-balanced, finely tuned and hand-worked engine from factory and is the obvious choice if you go down the engine swap route.

lol also the obvious choice if you have about 3k to spare to buy it and fir it, the gearboxes alone out of these sell for 1500 as they have a lsd in them

 

[VEN©M]

The engine, gearbox and ancillaries are always posted on the honda forums. going rate for the heap is £2k. the gearboxes can be got for a lot less than £1500 2nd hand i can assure you but then theres no guarantee as to its condition or whether shes going to pop a synchro.

 

[VEN©M]

availability of the typeR engine would be your first concern as they dont come up all that often and they are snapped up by the vti boys.

 

[revhard]

I can't help but think that he'd be better taking his car, selling it and adding on the £2500 to get himself a decent VTi. He'll have enough change left to see 170-180bhp out of it without having to worry about engine swaps and any associated problems. He'll also have the proper interior, dials and all the other goodies that come standard on the VTi.

Agreed, its a waste of money imo.

 

[PrimO]

Lee,
If you're going for the engine swap, bear in mind that although the b16a and b18 range of engines all share engine mounts, the D15B single-cam has totally different mounts so new ones will be needed. It might also be a bit of a nightmare sorting out the wiring.

Gaz

Engine mounts are the same in them all, so you just use your stock mounts, same goes for the wiring harness, you just need to add a knock sensor wire and possibly the vtec pressure switch (i'm not sure if the D15 engine has this) but other than that all you need then is an OBD1 to OBD2 conversion harness in order to use a later (95-00) B series OBD2 ECU, but if your using an engine from an EG6/9 VTi then the plugs are identical and its plug and play once you've added the few extra wires.

 

[Gaz]

Are you sure? I've been convinced for years (and told by others) that the mounts for any b16/b18 are different from d15 series.

Gaz

 

[Bibby]

Engine mounts are the same in them all, so you just use your stock mounts, same goes for the wiring harness, you just need to add a knock sensor wire and possibly the vtec pressure switch (i'm not sure if the D15 engine has this) but other than that all you need then is an OBD1 to OBD2 conversion harness in order to use a later (95-00) B series OBD2 ECU, but if your using an engine from an EG6/9 VTi then the plugs are identical and its plug and play once you've added the few extra wires.

i have changed a few d15 engines to b16's, the d15 stock engine mounts do not line up at all with the b16 gear box, so b16 mounts were needed
yes you do add a knock sensor in when fitting the b16, but there are also a few wires different in the pins in the ecu, so you can either spend time to work out which ones with wiring diagrams, or for the sake of about 2 hours fit the loom of the b16, which i have found the easiest, i did do the first one i done by changing the pins, and still have the diagrams of which ones to change, but fitting the complete look is easier

 

[PrimO]

Myself and a mate put a B18C from a JDM integra into a JDM EJ1 civic which originally had a D16?? SOHC VTEC engine, the mounts lined up perfectly, we didnt have to touch the originals...so unless the D16 used different mounts but i would have thought all D series engines used the same ones. We had the complete engine out from the donor car and in to the EJ1 in 3 hours. We originally thought we would have to swap the gearbox mount but as it turned out we didnt need to...I dunno...i'm lost now

 

[Gaz]

Yes, you're chatting about the 1.6 single-cam which was in the EG model - for example, the ESi. I bought one of these a couple of years ago to do a b18 conversion but ended up selling it after some guy offered me decent money for it. You're correct in that the engine mounts are the same in that model, but I think OTG is talking about the EK model (96-00) - the mounts are different in this, and its a 1.5 sohc as opposed to 1.6.

Gaz

 

[Gaz]

And on that note, can I add that you can buy a pretty clean EG model Civic Esi nowadays for as low as £700. Engine swaps pretty much straight into it, so if you can find a good b18c & gearbox, etc for £1500, you're looking at a pretty quick little 190bhp, 9000rpm hatch for £2k - and you can always take the engine out afterwards and put it back to normal as there's no cutting or drilling involved. They come with discs all round as standard, sunroof, all electrics, etc. I could never understand why more people aren't doing it

Gaz

 

[revhard]

I could never understand why more people aren't doing it

Mabye because the vti and sir were there, there isn't really a need to do all that when they're available.

 

[Gaz]

Mabye because the vti and sir were there, there isn't really a need to do all that when they're available.

VTi and Sir have the b16, I'm chatting about the b18 conversion ....... ESi can be bought as the project car for a lot less than a VTi/SiR but still uses the same mounts/etc

Gaz

 

[VEN©M]

....and these cars with the B18 conversions run 14 secs on the 1/4 mile!

 

[Gaz]

Exactly. You can spend £2500 on a decent VTi/SiR, or if you're mechanically inclined and like working on a project, spend the same money on an ESi with b18 conversion and get a much faster car out of it, with none of the usual problems associated with engine conversions. Lord praise Honda for their plug & play system .

Gaz

 

[PrimO]

Yes, you're chatting about the 1.6 single-cam which was in the EG model - for example, the ESi. I bought one of these a couple of years ago to do a b18 conversion but ended up selling it after some guy offered me decent money for it. You're correct in that the engine mounts are the same in that model, but I think OTG is talking about the EK model (96-00) - the mounts are different in this, and its a 1.5 sohc as opposed to 1.6.

Gaz

Ooooh ok gotcha now...i thought i was going mad because the 1.6 D-series engine we took out went into an EG LSi and the mounts were the same also.