Drunk in charge of a motor vehicle

[roverspeed]

Ive slept in peoples gardens, on my back door step, under a couple of inches of snow and in places ill not mention, and I still would have the sense to not put a key near my car when im drunk

So you would have the sense to trespass on private property or possibly die of cold instead.

Very sensible.

The police should have had the sense to see he didn't have intentions of driving. If the cop was worried that he was going to drive, why not take the lad home or at least to a position that he could get home without the car.

Police aren't just supposed to be there to uphold the law, they are there to support the community too. Alot of them forget that, alot think of themselves above the community.

And regards to beat duty, even the PSNI's own stats prove that the officers spend WAY too much time in the stations doing paperwork.

I have worked in stations and agree that there is alot of "red tape" for officers to deal with, but I also see with alot of them there is NO degree of urgency to their work.

Alot of the red tape is down do the "think of the children" crowd but alot is down to mistakes and wrong doings by the force before now.

 

[Richy]

Surely if the police officer had to wake him up, he had no intention of driving.

But the engine was running, so its swings and roundabouts really...

 

[pablo]

I guess if youre in a car with the engine running then you are operating that car. Would be very easy to reach for a CD and knock it into gear or something if youre really far gone.

 

[Boydie]

It doesn't matter about the officers discretion or not - they have to take into consideration the worst case scenario.

If there was an accident and they hadn't done anything about it to prevent it, they would be in deep shizzle

 

[pablo]

there is a whole fuzzy grey area around "Intent" though. Proving intent isnt easy but it seems all you need is a coppers word for it. Minority Report anyone?

The law is at fault imo, intent to me is sitting in the drivers seat with the steering wheel in your hand checking your mirrors about to move off. Not sleeping in the back seat.

 

[Gaz]

But then where do you draw the line? If he had been sitting sleeping in the front seat instead of back, would he still have no intent? If he had been in front seat but didn't have his hands on wheels, would there be intent? If the engine wasn't running, would there be intent?

If you think there's a grey area now, it would only be worse if they had to work hard to establish intent every time. It would send a mixed message - it's ok if you're drunk in the back seat and the engine is running, just make sure you don't climb into the front as that means you could be about to drive.

IMO - drunk people shouldn't be in a car with the engine running, that's just a big no-no.
Decisions made when impaired are not usually the wisest ones, despite whatever intentions you may have when sober.

 

[pablo]

as I said above the engine running effectively puts you in charge of the vehicle while drunk, which is fair enough. I was more meaning just sleeping in the back, which is still deemed the same afaik.

 

[Coog]

What if your mate is designated driver taking you and a few mates home from the pub. He stops and nips into the petrol station for some woodbines or something and leaves you in the car with the engine running?

I've deffo been in that situation before

 

[therock]

Think of it in terms of policing this particular law

A trevor walks upto a running car, see's a man inside the back sleeping. Wakes him, finds out he is pished as a fart.

Peeler thinks to himself - "is there a possibility he may drive this car in the state he is in?" Well yes, there is a possibility.

In terms of arse-covering, the cop arrests the man because of the possibility he may take to the road and kill someone.

If he 'lets him off' with it, what can he do? He can't take the keys off him, give him a lift anywhere, etc, etc. Therein still remains the possibility of him driving and killing someone.

No doubt the police would be to blame in that scenario.

 

[Boydie]

there was a members on here who was lifting their brother from a night out if I remember correctly. He stopped at the side of the road for a pee and turned the engine off.

The brother was freezing and leaned over to turn the engine on, cops pulled up and did him for DIC.

 

[pablo]

Think of it in terms of policing this particular law

A trevor walks upto a running car, see's a man inside the back sleeping. Wakes him, finds out he is pished as a fart.

Peeler thinks to himself - "is there a possibility he may drive this car in the state he is in?" Well yes, there is a possibility.

In terms of arse-covering, the cop arrests the man because of the possibility he may take to the road and kill someone.

If he 'lets him off' with it, what can he do? He can't take the keys off him, give him a lift anywhere, etc, etc. Therein still remains the possibility of him driving and killing someone.

No doubt the police would be to blame in that scenario.

Why couldnt they take the keys and say collect them from the station in the morning? Or be arrested. I know what Id choose!

Being arrested because you "possibly" might do something just seems wrong.

 

[rollinstone]

I know it seems wrong however if the officer does anything apart from procedure they may then leave themselves open to an ombudsman investigation, if the officer does nothing then they effectively let the person be drunk in charge of a motor vehicle. The person can then defend their actions in a court of law and if the judge believes them and that they had no intention to drive the vehicle then they will most likely be aquitted, however in the car with the engine running will no doubt result in a ban in this instance.

 

[Gaz]

I know it seems wrong however if the officer does anything apart from procedure they may then leave themselves open to an ombudsman investigation, if the officer does nothing then they effectively let the person be drunk in charge of a motor vehicle. The person can then defend their actions in a court of law and if the judge believes them and that they had no intention to drive the vehicle then they will most likely be aquitted, however in the car with the engine running will no doubt result in a ban in this instance.

Most sensible post yet. Police did exactly what they're paid to do, if the guy truly had no intention of driving then the court will let him off.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Most sensible post yet. Police did exactly what they're paid to do, if the guy truly had no intention of driving then the court will let him off.

Gaz the law does not deal with intention
With in-charge cases it is up to the driver to prove TO THE COURT that there was NO LIKELIHOOD of him driving solong as he remained over the limit or unfit. It is not upto the police to prove that there was a likelihood of him driving.
This was decided in the European Courts in a case called Sheldrake.
Also the offence of in charge does not carry a mandatory disqualification period upon conviction.

 

[wingnut]

Most sensible post yet. Police did exactly what they're paid to do, if the guy truly had no intention of driving then the court will let him off.

It probably won't though - at the end of the day he was still 'drunk in charge', regardless of his intentions.

The 5-0 would also most likely assume in this case, that when this drunk person wakens up from their snooze in the car, that they will most likely drive the car afterwards, still over the limit.

 

[davecoupe]

Its a bit of a joke to get done for DIC (lol) if the car is turned off, but the fact that in this case the car was tuned on I can understand it. I would probably have done the same (im not a cop btw)

I think if the person is asleep in the back with the keys in their pocket and the locked out story as told above they have no intention of driving because they would drive straight away instead of going to sleep.

It just seems your mate mate got done for having the car running tbh

 

[Johnski]

Why couldnt they take the keys and say collect them from the station in the morning? Or be arrested. I know what Id choose!

Being arrested because you "possibly" might do something just seems wrong.

''The police stopped me and stole my keys''.....thats why.

 

[Neil@rockvale]

There has been lots of discussion of this sort of thing on some of the vw camper forums as several guys in england got done for having the keys on them whilst pished as a fart and sleeping in the bed in the back of the camper . I always thought that was a bit unfair considering i know ive slept in the camper tons of nights after a few beers whilst camping and ive never even considered leaving the keys outside or up the exhaust etc.

 

[Boydie]

Good point neil, I didnt consider camper vans! What about them regarding the rules for DIC?

Go up to the port in the summer and park up in Landsdown carpark, have a few drinks with the wife, get jiggy, rattle on the door, "ello ello ello, wots all dis den?" , get done for DIC while on the job!

 

[Crazy Horse]

Good point neil, I didnt consider camper vans! What about them regarding the rules for DIC?

Go up to the port in the summer and park up in Landsdown carpark, have a few drinks with the wife, get jiggy, rattle on the door, "ello ello ello, wots all dis den?" , get done for DIC while on the job!

folks check my earlier post it's not upto the police officer at the time to prove if you "Intended" to drive or not. It's upto the driver to prover to the COURT that there was no LIKELIHOOD of him driving. If he can do that then he'll get off. In a camper if you put the stabilizer bars down at night that should be enought to prove no likelihood. Might be a good idea to use them anyway if youfancy some "jiggy"

 

[Neil@rockvale]

Crazy Horse a vw camper has no such luxuries as stabaliser bars/legs . Your lucky if you have a handbrake to pull on lol.

 

[B A Baracus]

A number of years ago a fella in Banbridge went to his car to get a coat and was lifted for DIC. His solicitor called the taxi operator as a witness that he had prepaid his lift home, and he got off

 

[pablo]

lucky bugger!

 

[Rocko]

A number of years ago a fella in Banbridge went to his car to get a coat and was lifted for DIC. His solicitor called the taxi operator as a witness that he had prepaid his lift home, and he got off

Happened to a friend of my old man outside the pub in Groomsport but he was intending to walk. Unlocked the car, opened the back door and lifted his coat. He didnt get off.