F1 2017 : All Chat Here

[svensktoppen]

Money talks at that level in F1. Imagine getting the car adapted and approved might have played into it as well.

 

[lackingBHP]

Or he was never that good to start with

 

[Bedhead]

Or he was never that good to start with

He was good, at one time he was talked about as a future multiple WDC winner.

This is either a very brave move from Williams or they are absolutely skint, their line ups have always been a quick driver with a "solid" number two, Stroll is nowhere near the finished article and Sirotkin's main attraction is a load of oil money. I hope they don't use it all up on carbon fibre.

 

[surprising_skoda]

Or he was never that good to start with

Hold on. I'm not reading past that.

I went on a quest to find Kubica's record.
So in 2006 , he replaced Jacques Villeneuve, the 1997 world champion.
Villeneuve's record over 12 races was DNF,7,6,12,8,12,14,8,16,12,11,15.
Kubica's six races in the same car - DSQ,12,3,13,9,9. That 3rd was in Monza and he was only beaten by Michael and KImi (the year where Schumey lost the title lockout to Alonso )
In 2007 he kept Heidfeld matched and scored plenty of 4/5/6 positions behind McLaren and Ferrari. That was the year Kimi pipped the squabbling Alonso and Hamilton and Massa was right on them, so the podium was pretty much off limits - Heidfeld got on it twice.
2008 and he won a race, 3 2nd places, 3 3rd, and a handful of 4/5/6 as well. Only three times he qualified outside the top 10, and mostly in the top 5. That was the year Timo Glock decided the title and Kubica finished with the same points as Kimi, who took 3rd overall due to winning twice. So fourth, in the title race.
Then 2009, the year Brawn came out of nowhere, the SauberBMW was scrap, and didn't get anywhere, but his finishes were all comparable with Heidfeld, and he managed to wring a 4th and a 2nd out of it.

Renault in 2010 and he qualified in the top 10 all but one race. As a comparison, his team-mate was Vitaly Petrov, which isn't much exciting but he only managed to finish in the top ten in four races. Kubica finished in the top ten in all BUT four of the races. Three of those were car failure and the other one was 11th place. He pulled out a 2nd and two 3rd places, and a load of 5ths. That was the year RBR came good and Vettel pipped Alonso by just 4 points. Kubica came 8th in the title, right behind 6th and 7th. Everyone 5th or above had 2+ wins.

I've spent way too much time looking all that up! I guess a lot will depend on how you view Heidfeld as a benchmark. I always thought he was much better than he was credited for.

I don't think he's going to challenge Max Verstappen for driver championships over the next couple of years, but I still think he's a strong driver, definitely better than about half the field right now.

 

[lackingBHP]

"In 2007 he kept Heidfeld matched"

I rest my case.

I do agree that he is quicker than some there but honestly I never thought he was that good.

Reminded me of Frentzen in that quick on the odd day but where was all this eye watering speed people talk about.

 

[DC.]

Williams have been left pretty much with slim pickings when it comes to replacing Felipe Massa.

Wehrlein; good but nothing special. Still young enough to improve though. Mercedes backed.

Sirotkin; unproven at the very top. Finished second to Sauber/Alfa new boy Charles Leclerc in F2 last year. €€€

Kubica; the most experienced option, arguably the quickest option but there’s that lingering doubt about his injury.

Kvyat; experienced, fast but a gamble. His ‘Torpedo’ nickname says it all.

Di Resta; I don’t think he’s been in the reckoning at all. Vastly experienced mind you.

Rowland; The complete outsider. Unproven, little experience of an F1 car, not that successful in the junior categories.

Those options say a lot about Williams. They used to be one of the most coveted teams that attracted the highest quality of driver. They should have made a move for one of the star drivers on the grid (Saint or Perez) last winter when they lost Bottas to Mercedes but they didn’t. Poor planning or maybe they’re just chasing the €€€.

 

[lackingBHP]

Williams should put Montoya on a crash diet over the winter!

 

[DC.]

He would need more than one winter.

They should aim to get someone of note for 2019 at least. Give Kvyat a one-year deal & hope for the best

 

[lackingBHP]

Sure bring Massa back for his 3rd retirement year!

 

[stevyg]

Hold on. I'm not reading past that.

I went on a quest to find Kubica's record.
So in 2006 , he replaced Jacques Villeneuve, the 1997 world champion.
Villeneuve's record over 12 races was DNF,7,6,12,8,12,14,8,16,12,11,15.
Kubica's six races in the same car - DSQ,12,3,13,9,9. That 3rd was in Monza and he was only beaten by Michael and KImi (the year where Schumey lost the title lockout to Alonso )
In 2007 he kept Heidfeld matched and scored plenty of 4/5/6 positions behind McLaren and Ferrari. That was the year Kimi pipped the squabbling Alonso and Hamilton and Massa was right on them, so the podium was pretty much off limits - Heidfeld got on it twice.
2008 and he won a race, 3 2nd places, 3 3rd, and a handful of 4/5/6 as well. Only three times he qualified outside the top 10, and mostly in the top 5. That was the year Timo Glock decided the title and Kubica finished with the same points as Kimi, who took 3rd overall due to winning twice. So fourth, in the title race.
Then 2009, the year Brawn came out of nowhere, the SauberBMW was scrap, and didn't get anywhere, but his finishes were all comparable with Heidfeld, and he managed to wring a 4th and a 2nd out of it.

Renault in 2010 and he qualified in the top 10 all but one race. As a comparison, his team-mate was Vitaly Petrov, which isn't much exciting but he only managed to finish in the top ten in four races. Kubica finished in the top ten in all BUT four of the races. Three of those were car failure and the other one was 11th place. He pulled out a 2nd and two 3rd places, and a load of 5ths. That was the year RBR came good and Vettel pipped Alonso by just 4 points. Kubica came 8th in the title, right behind 6th and 7th. Everyone 5th or above had 2+ wins.

I've spent way too much time looking all that up! I guess a lot will depend on how you view Heidfeld as a benchmark. I always thought he was much better than he was credited for.

I don't think he's going to challenge Max Verstappen for driver championships over the next couple of years, but I still think he's a strong driver, definitely better than about half the field right now.

Well researched, I still don't rate him much, he may struggle to be mid-pack even in a half decent car. One heavy shunt and he's ballixed then the search for a new driver begins again. This made me lol " Kubica came 8th in the title, right behind 6th and 7th."

 

[surprising_skoda]

"In 2007 he kept Heidfeld matched"

I rest my case.

I do agree that he is quicker than some there but honestly I never thought he was that good.

Reminded me of Frentzen in that quick on the odd day but where was all this eye watering speed people talk about.

Well exactly, like I'd said it depends on how you rate Heidfeld. In my eyes, much like Hulkenberg is today, and Frentzen as you mentioned was too. I've no doubt any of those guys would have a title or two had they caught the right team at the right time.
Remember that Michael Schumacher refused to have Frentzen race alongside him. It might have been because if I remember the goss, he stole Claudia from H-H before they got to F1, but it might also have been because Frentzen IIRC beat Schumacher in F3 or whichever junior they both ran in prior to F1.

Well researched, I still don't rate him much, he may struggle to be mid-pack even in a half decent car. One heavy shunt and he's ballixed then the search for a new driver begins again. This made me lol " Kubica came 8th in the title, right behind 6th and 7th."

Glad it got a chuckle!
What I'd meant and not written very well, is that he was just a couple of points behind. Like 138 to 142 and 144, or something like that.

 

[mrloaf]

Well exactly, like I'd said it depends on how you rate Heidfeld. In my eyes, much like Hulkenberg is today, and Frentzen as you mentioned was too. I've no doubt any of those guys would have a title or two had they caught the right team at the right time.
Remember that Michael Schumacher refused to have Frentzen race alongside him. It might have been because if I remember the goss, he stole Claudia from H-H before they got to F1, but it might also have been because Frentzen IIRC beat Schumacher in F3 or whichever junior they both ran in prior to F1.


Glad it got a chuckle!
What I'd meant and not written very well, is that he was just a couple of points behind. Like 138 to 142 and 144, or something like that.

Exactly, right place, right time, right car, and the right backing to your side of the garage from the team is what it has historically taken for driver championships

 

[Bedhead]

Exactly, right place, right time, right car, and the right backing to your side of the garage from the team is what it has historically taken for driver championships

Mansell, Hill, Jacques Villeneuve and Button are great examples of this.

 

[gpaevo]

Ah poor sHamilton only 60k votes in spoty 2017. Johnny Rea got 80k in comparison.

 

[lackingBHP]

Would hate to see Hamilton's phone bill this morning...

 

[pablo]

Ah poor sHamilton only 60k votes in spoty 2017. Johnny Rea got 80k in comparison.

Didn't really think he was in the running this year so 60k was probably pretty good.

 

[gpaevo]

Didn't really think he was in the running this year so 60k was probably pretty good.

I guess so, saying as the doper froome got 47k

 

[pablo]

doper? really?

 

[cauld1]

doper? really?

Yup, overuse of asthma inhaler.

 

[gpaevo]

doper? really?

He's apparently asthmatic like ever other pro cyclist now a days or at least that's his excuse.

 

[Gaza_r]

He's apparently asthmatic like ever other pro cyclist now a days or at least that's his excuse.

I'm an asthmatic and why anyone would willingly use triamcinolone is beyond me.

I had to use it when recovering from a bad chest infection. The consultant starting listing all the side effects to your liver and bowels from using it and sure enough after 3 days I got really bad acid reflux and stopped using it.

 

[svensktoppen]

New thread for 2018.

F1 2018

Admin, please close this thread and move the sticky.