F1 2019: ALL CHAT HERE

svensktoppen

RMS Regular
Drives
S3, Elise
Schumacher got his wins in an era when ferrari literally wrote the rule book, unlimited testing, ran their own unique tyres specific to each track, their own unique fuel, the biggest share of the money pot (still do by the way), and all the rest of it. It's ludicrous to say that was not down to the team. No other team got a look-in during that time.

People complain about Mercedes dominance now - it's nothing compared to the ferrari/Schumacher years when ferrari literally ran the sport.

Anyway, comparing drivers from different eras is always going to be pointless.

So you think Michael was the greatest thing ever (I would put Jim Clark followed by Senna in that spot), no problem. Each to their own and all that.

Does that have to mean you can't appreciate anyone else just because of petty **** like you don't like how they dress or their taste in music or whatever? How sad is that?

Anyway, this is just the regular trolling session isn't it 😂 😂 😂
 

cauld1

RMS Regular
Drives
BMW E34
Schumacher got his wins in an era when ferrari literally wrote the rule book, unlimited testing, ran their own unique tyres specific to each track, their own unique fuel, the biggest share of the money pot (still do by the way), and all the rest of it. It's ludicrous to say that was not down to the team. No other team got a look-in during that time.

People complain about Mercedes dominance now - it's nothing compared to the ferrari/Schumacher years when ferrari literally ran the sport.

Anyway, comparing drivers from different eras is always going to be pointless.

So you think Michael was the greatest thing ever (I would put Jim Clark followed by Senna in that spot), no problem. Each to their own and all that.

Does that have to mean you can't appreciate anyone else just because of petty **** like you don't like how they dress or their taste in music or whatever? How sad is that?

Anyway, this is just the regular trolling session isn't it 😂 😂 😂
Clark, Hill snr, Prost all well ahead of Senna imo.

Respect your opinion and all but whilst there's no doubt Senna was a talented driver, he was far too hot headed and resorted to dirty tactics often to be considered a great imo.

I know Schumacher had plenty of controversy as well but he was also a fantastic driver. I grew up to watching him and Ferrari just dominate. There's nothing quite like the German and Italian anthems on the podium.
 

stevyg

RMS Regular
Location
South USA
Questionable fashion sense, cry baby, spoiled sport, international galivanter, gifted the best cars, has it easy as part of the best teams, emotional wreck.

But what has he got left to prove? He is absolutely worthy of his 5 championships, is on track for a 6th and should’ve won 2 more in 2007 and 2016.

What a racer, has the busiest schedule of anyone in F1 yet delivers every weekend, an incredible car developer behind the scenes, never gives up, an immense team player and if you’ve followed him from the start you know that he went through hell at the beginning of his career. He was cheated out of race wins, punished literally dozens of times unfairly by the FIA, overlooked by his own team, constantly chastised by his team mate and boo’d every single time he was on the podium for years for no reason other than let’s be honest he’s black & beat Alonso. He has won in different cars in different teams & in different eras. He’s won in terrible cars and has went through dry spells and a lot of low points yet came back.
I really like Vettel, he’s a great driver and up there among the best of all time but after his success with RB he hasn’t shown that he can come back and maybe he doesn’t need to with 4 WDCs he’s really done it all. Vettel never won a race in 2007, 2014 or 2016 and hasn’t this year yet, Lewis has won a race every year in F1.
Hamilton’s pole laps are incredible even when his car is a dog. He has 17 more poles than Michael Schumacher- that’s Jackie Stewarts career more than Schumacher or Jenson Button & Bottas collective careers combined more than Schumacher. Another testament to how good he is is how highly Alonso & Rosberg speak of him, both those guys hated his guts when they were racing against him in the same machinery and now they say he’s one of the all-time greats.
I didn’t like Hamilton in 2007 & 2008 because he was beating drivers I supported then I saw his final lap in Brazil 2008 and I knew he was relentless. Even though he’s a tool at times through the years, he’s grown on me & I think he’s one of the greatest of all time top 5 for me and who knows how many more he will win. I also don’t like supporting losers, when the next great winner comes along I’ll support him and that’s ok. I say that a little tongue in cheek but that’s the good thing about F1, every few years you can support a certain driver &/or a certain team. You don’t have to like a team just because you like one of their drivers and you don’t have to like a driver just because he drives for a team you want to see do well.
The big question now… is this 'pr1ck' Hamilton going to win in France??
 

da.murf

RMS Regular
Location
My Garage
Drives
Nissan 350z GT
Questionable fashion sense, cry baby, spoiled sport, international galivanter, gifted the best cars, has it easy as part of the best teams, emotional wreck.

But what has he got left to prove? He is absolutely worthy of his 5 championships, is on track for a 6th and should’ve won 2 more in 2007 and 2016.

What a racer, has the busiest schedule of anyone in F1 yet delivers every weekend, an incredible car developer behind the scenes, never gives up, an immense team player and if you’ve followed him from the start you know that he went through hell at the beginning of his career. He was cheated out of race wins, punished literally dozens of times unfairly by the FIA, overlooked by his own team, constantly chastised by his team mate and boo’d every single time he was on the podium for years for no reason other than let’s be honest he’s black & beat Alonso. He has won in different cars in different teams & in different eras. He’s won in terrible cars and has went through dry spells and a lot of low points yet came back.
I really like Vettel, he’s a great driver and up there among the best of all time but after his success with RB he hasn’t shown that he can come back and maybe he doesn’t need to with 4 WDCs he’s really done it all. Vettel never won a race in 2007, 2014 or 2016 and hasn’t this year yet, Lewis has won a race every year in F1.
Hamilton’s pole laps are incredible even when his car is a dog. He has 17 more poles than Michael Schumacher- that’s Jackie Stewarts career more than Schumacher or Jenson Button & Bottas collective careers combined more than Schumacher. Another testament to how good he is is how highly Alonso & Rosberg speak of him, both those guys hated his guts when they were racing against him in the same machinery and now they say he’s one of the all-time greats.
I didn’t like Hamilton in 2007 & 2008 because he was beating drivers I supported then I saw his final lap in Brazil 2008 and I knew he was relentless. Even though he’s a tool at times through the years, he’s grown on me & I think he’s one of the greatest of all time top 5 for me and who knows how many more he will win. I also don’t like supporting losers, when the next great winner comes along I’ll support him and that’s ok. I say that a little tongue in cheek but that’s the good thing about F1, every few years you can support a certain driver &/or a certain team. You don’t have to like a team just because you like one of their drivers and you don’t have to like a driver just because he drives for a team you want to see do well.
The big question now… is this 'pr1ck' Hamilton going to win in France??
 

David.S

RMS Regular
Drives
Van
Questionable fashion sense, cry baby, spoiled sport, international galivanter, gifted the best cars, has it easy as part of the best teams, emotional wreck.

But what has he got left to prove? He is absolutely worthy of his 5 championships, is on track for a 6th and should’ve won 2 more in 2007 and 2016.

What a racer, has the busiest schedule of anyone in F1 yet delivers every weekend, an incredible car developer behind the scenes, never gives up, an immense team player and if you’ve followed him from the start you know that he went through hell at the beginning of his career. He was cheated out of race wins, punished literally dozens of times unfairly by the FIA, overlooked by his own team, constantly chastised by his team mate and boo’d every single time he was on the podium for years for no reason other than let’s be honest he’s black & beat Alonso. He has won in different cars in different teams & in different eras. He’s won in terrible cars and has went through dry spells and a lot of low points yet came back.
I really like Vettel, he’s a great driver and up there among the best of all time but after his success with RB he hasn’t shown that he can come back and maybe he doesn’t need to with 4 WDCs he’s really done it all. Vettel never won a race in 2007, 2014 or 2016 and hasn’t this year yet, Lewis has won a race every year in F1.
Hamilton’s pole laps are incredible even when his car is a dog. He has 17 more poles than Michael Schumacher- that’s Jackie Stewarts career more than Schumacher or Jenson Button & Bottas collective careers combined more than Schumacher. Another testament to how good he is is how highly Alonso & Rosberg speak of him, both those guys hated his guts when they were racing against him in the same machinery and now they say he’s one of the all-time greats.
I didn’t like Hamilton in 2007 & 2008 because he was beating drivers I supported then I saw his final lap in Brazil 2008 and I knew he was relentless. Even though he’s a tool at times through the years, he’s grown on me & I think he’s one of the greatest of all time top 5 for me and who knows how many more he will win. I also don’t like supporting losers, when the next great winner comes along I’ll support him and that’s ok. I say that a little tongue in cheek but that’s the good thing about F1, every few years you can support a certain driver &/or a certain team. You don’t have to like a team just because you like one of their drivers and you don’t have to like a driver just because he drives for a team you want to see do well.
The big question now… is this 'pr1ck' Hamilton going to win in France??
You nailed it 👍
 

surprising_skoda

RMS Regular
Location
Dungannon
Drives
Skoda/BMW/Austin
Every multiple world champion has been in a dominant team.

In terms of the last multiple world champions : Schumacher was in a dominant team, Vettel was in a dominant team and Hamilton has been in a dominant team. Even Alonso was in a top team when he won his two titles
2009, a one-hit wonder team was the best. In 2010 Vettel won by 256 points to Alonso's 252. Hardly dominant. They became that way after they (the team and the driver) had elevated themselves to the top.
2005, Alonso won the title in a team that won 8 races - and McLaren won 10. Dominant? Not quite. Raikkonnen had more fastest laps and the same individual wins as Alonso, but not as many podiums. In 2006 Renault had 8 again and Ferrari had 9. The exact same story as the previous year - except Schumacher this time.
And Schumacher himself - moved to a team that could only muster one win a season between two well proven racers, while at Benetton he had been racking up 8 wins a year - which still wasn't enough to be dominant over Williams either. McLaren also had the measure of Ferrari in 98-99 - it definitely was not a dominant team until it was built into one.



I quite like vettel too and I don’t think anyone likes to see a one horse race (boring) but Ferrari aren’t there on pace, strategy or even talent. Vetted shows he struggles under pressure so I’d say if anyone was gifted titles it was him. He was largely unchallenged in the RB days.
Again, I still don't know why people repeat this.
2010: Vettel 256 pts, Alonso 252. Same amount of wins.
2012: Vettel 281 pts, Alonso 278. 5 wins to 3 this year, which shows just how pegged Alonso had him.
Well challenged. Two other very dominant years, but was that him, or the car? His teammate was well, well off his pace but maybe his teammate wasn't up to a comparative standard.

You can’t say it’s all the car because Bottas can’t perform and he isn’t a bad driver.
I'd disagree!

Now there you could talk about getting lucky 😇

Rosberg has written some very interesting pieces on just what it took for him to even be in a position to be able to challenge Lewis. Not just that season, it was a sustained effort over years. And it was why he stopped when he got there.
Your second comment negates the first. It wasn't luck, it was hard work and determination.

Hum.....Hamilton has always been gifted a winning car in a winning top team. Schumacher consistently brought a ***** car to the top with his development approach etc. Non comparable in my opinion.
Gifted really? Mercedes weren’t dominant when he left mclaren to move there. People thought he was nuts.
The Ex-Brawn (i.e. 2009 Champion) team that had undergone three years of development with Rosberg and Schumacher who had taken it up to a race winning, podium placing team in 2012 before Hamilton moved there in '13 and they won three races and finished 2nd in the Constructors? Nobody thought he was nuts, and all the development was done, and Mercedes were the biggest lobbyists and most developed team for the hybrid era... Gifted is a fair assertion.

Schumacher got his wins in an era when ferrari literally wrote the rule book, unlimited testing, ran their own unique tyres specific to each track, their own unique fuel, the biggest share of the money pot (still do by the way), and all the rest of it. It's ludicrous to say that was not down to the team. No other team got a look-in during that time.

People complain about Mercedes dominance now - it's nothing compared to the ferrari/Schumacher years when ferrari literally ran the sport.
Schumacher also won two championships with Benetton, and a clatter of races in the late 90s when Ferrari definitely were not flavour of the month nor very dominant. The team was what he built around him, and you only have to watch Rosberg's post-retirement youtube interviews to understand how Schumacher related to the team members and brought the best out of them. To marginalise everything he did by saying it was all down to the team is ludicrous.


Anyway, this is just the regular trolling session isn't it 😂 😂 😂
Absolutely... and very enjoyable too...

But what has he got left to prove? He is absolutely worthy of his 5 championships, is on track for a 6th and should’ve won 2 more in 2007 and 2016.
You want to hand him more - when he got handed 2008 on a platter which he shouldn't have had, and '16 when he was well and truly beaten by Rosberg, who even did it with less wins than Hamilton in 2nd...
By the same measure Schumacher should have 9 and Senna should have 6.
Each driver gets what they work for and when it's done it should be left at that. Nobody is trying to say Prost should have got 6 or Hill should have got another 2. Trying to attribute extra wins or championships to a driver or team that didn't win them is just a slippery rabbit hole that ends up in a farce.

He’s won in terrible cars and has went through dry spells and a lot of low points yet came back.
Tell me about this terrible car he drove?
Tell me about this 'dry spell' when he's won a race every year in F1?

boo’d every single time he was on the podium for years for no reason other than let’s be honest he’s black & beat Alonso
Please. It isn't because E iz "Black". I've had darker tans, but that's beside the point. He didn't beat Alonso either - same wins, same points, one year in the same car. He gets boo'd because - well, you said it yourself.

He has 17 more poles than Michael Schumacher- that’s Jackie Stewarts career more than Schumacher or Jenson Button & Bottas collective careers combined more than Schumacher.
The numbers always end up skewed. How is that fair?
Schumachers first championship was in 1994 over 16 races, and last in 05 over 18 races.
Hamilton's 07 win was also 18, but in 2018 he won over a 21 race season.
The points have increased, both availability and in number, so all points records are going to be beaten as a matter of course.

The only fair thing that remains is to compare the drivers to their peers (in terms of championships) and in ratios, because numbers are not a level playing field. Someone smarter and more patient than me could work out the percentage of points gained out of those available during their careers but for now I can tell you that
Schumacher win ratio: (91/308) = 29.5% and pole ratio 22%
Hamilton win ratio: (78/236) = 33% and pole ratio 36%
so while that makes it look like Hamilton is so much better... lets give fair shout to the drivers that didn't have the opportunity to score 500 points in a season...
Ascari win ratio: (13/32) = 40.6% and pole ratio 44%
Senna win ratio (41/161) = 25.5% and pole ratio 40%
Clark win ratio (25/72) = 35% and pole ratio 46%
Fangio win ratio (22/51) = 43% and pole ratio 57%
... and there are plenty more besides. If you're going to ascribe greatness to the simple number of poles acheived, then you're never going to be pitching fairly. Unless all these drivers were challenging over the same number of races in their seasons, on as varied a selection of tracks as were once the norm, then it's meaningless. Like points is - Schumacher has some 1500 career tally. Ricciardo and Bottas are both over a thousand each and they've never even had a look at a WDC, never mind 7. It's easy to rack up numbers when the race calendar is so much longer than it was for the drivers you're comparing to.
 

stevyg

RMS Regular
Location
South USA
You want to hand him more - when he got handed 2008 on a platter which he shouldn't have had, and '16 when he was well and truly beaten by Rosberg, who even did it with less wins than Hamilton in 2nd...
By the same measure Schumacher should have 9 and Senna should have 6.
Each driver gets what they work for and when it's done it should be left at that. Nobody is trying to say Prost should have got 6 or Hill should have got another 2. Trying to attribute extra wins or championships to a driver or team that didn't win them is just a slippery rabbit hole that ends up in a farce.
He won 2008 on the last corner of the last lap of the last race by 1 point, when Massa crossed the line he was the world champion so I would hardly call that a championship ‘handed to him on a platter’. Its contradictory to say he was ‘well and truly beaten’ in 2016 but he actually had more wins.

Tell me about this terrible car he drove?
09 was terrible 12 was awful & 13 was really terrible

Tell me about this 'dry spell' when he's won a race every year in F1?
09, 11 & 13 had dry spells

Please. It isn't because E iz "Black". I've had darker tans, but that's beside the point. He didn't beat Alonso either - same wins, same points, one year in the same car. He gets boo'd because - well, you said it yourself.
A darker tan doesn’t change your race. He had so much racial abuse that the FIA had to launch a campaign against racism and he did beat Alonso, that’s why he’s classed 2nd in 2007 Championship & Alonso is 3rd.

The numbers always end up skewed. How is that fair?
Schumachers first championship was in 1994 over 16 races, and last in 05 over 18 races.
Hamilton's 07 win was also 18, but in 2018 he won over a 21 race season.
The points have increased, both availability and in number, so all points records are going to be beaten as a matter of course.

The only fair thing that remains is to compare the drivers to their peers (in terms of championships) and in ratios, because numbers are not a level playing field. Someone smarter and more patient than me could work out the percentage of points gained out of those available during their careers but for now I can tell you that
Schumacher win ratio: (91/308) = 29.5% and pole ratio 22%
Hamilton win ratio: (78/236) = 33% and pole ratio 36%
so while that makes it look like Hamilton is so much better... lets give fair shout to the drivers that didn't have the opportunity to score 500 points in a season...
Ascari win ratio: (13/32) = 40.6% and pole ratio 44%
Senna win ratio (41/161) = 25.5% and pole ratio 40%
Clark win ratio (25/72) = 35% and pole ratio 46%
Fangio win ratio (22/51) = 43% and pole ratio 57%
... and there are plenty more besides. If you're going to ascribe greatness to the simple number of poles acheived, then you're never going to be pitching fairly. Unless all these drivers were challenging over the same number of races in their seasons, on as varied a selection of tracks as were once the norm, then it's meaningless. Like points is - Schumacher has some 1500 career tally. Ricciardo and Bottas are both over a thousand each and they've never even had a look at a WDC, never mind 7. It's easy to rack up numbers when the race calendar is so much longer than it was for the drivers you're comparing to.

I agree it’s not fair to compare drivers of different eras but if the only way to do that is with numbers then I’m not sure what your point is here other than Hamilton is in your list of the top 6 greatest drivers of all time and according to those numbers he is 4th in win % and 5th in pole % and he’s done considerably more races than others who are marginally ahead of him. Almost 7.5x more races than Ascari, almost 5x more than Fangio, over 3x more than Clark and 1.5x more than Senna. Schumacher is unbelievably impressive with those figures after 308 races, and those % would have been better if he stayed retired.
 

svensktoppen

RMS Regular
Drives
S3, Elise
68th career pole pulled out of the hat, clearly just sheer blind luck after yet more **** driving :joy::joy::joy:

McL have woken up all of a sudden.

Leclerk driving the nuts off the ferrari again, he's really great to watch.

Vettel still sulking :innocent: He was complaining about gear box issues, haven't seen anything more about that though. Assume there was some technical issue for him to finish that far back.

Whoever is first through turn one will win on this track.
 

RoniN

RMS Regular
Location
Home
Drives
______
Ahem..

86th career pole pulled out of the hat, clearly just sheer blind luck after yet more **** driving :joy::joy::joy:

McL have woken up all of a sudden.

Leclerk driving the nuts off the ferrari again, he's really great to watch.

Vettel still sulking :innocent: He was complaining about gear box issues, haven't seen anything more about that though. Assume there was some technical issue for him to finish that far back.

Whoever is first through turn one will win on this track.
Cheers
 

DC.

RMS Regular
Drives
VW Golf GTI
He’s well passed 68 pole positions, today was no.86! His run of incredible luck continues, imagine if he had some talent!

Speaking of talent, how on earth can both Stroll & Kubica justify their place on that grid?
 

svensktoppen

RMS Regular
Drives
S3, Elise
As for Kubica, I've been a fan for a long time. Getting back behind the wheel of an F1 car after that accident is a huge achievement.

Just not working out though, is it? A long way behind his team mate.

Can only assume he's doing more on the development side, and of course bringing much needed sponsorship to Williams.
 

DC.

RMS Regular
Drives
VW Golf GTI
No sense of anything with Paul Ricard. As Vettel said the other day “it’s a car park with lines and kerbs”.

Magny-Cours was a much better track.
 

gpaevo

RMS Regular
Location
North Down Riviera
Drives
F31 BMW
Another race I'll not be watching. For the first time in 25 years of watching F1 this is the first season I've had no desire to watch it when I hear the result.
 

DC.

RMS Regular
Drives
VW Golf GTI
I fell asleep, woke up then went for a drive. All over bar the champagne and trophies for the championships too.
 

carmad.

RMS Regular
Location
belfast
Drives
good old bird
watched the whole thing at one point i was wondering why am i paying for sky f1

getting a bit like watching diffing :worried:
 

Bryan

RMS Regular
Location
Waringstown
Drives
Cortina/Wrangler
That track looked rubbish - so much tarmac run off. It's like somewhere you go to learn how to be an F1 driver so if you make a mistake there is a mile of run off before you hit anything.

Pretty boring race as usual although I thought Ricciardo did well.
 

carmad.

RMS Regular
Location
belfast
Drives
good old bird
That track looked rubbish - so much tarmac run off. It's like somewhere you go to learn how to be an F1 driver so if you make a mistake there is a mile of run off before you hit anything.

Pretty boring race as usual although I thought Ricciardo did well.

ricciardo ended up with points on his licence and 2 x 5 sec penalties
 

svensktoppen

RMS Regular
Drives
S3, Elise
Well that was exciting 😇 😂 😂 😂

Thank lord for fast forward, lol!

Some decent scraps behind though. Saintz and Ricciardo did well, shame about Norris technical problem at the end.

Actually I think it would be much better if we just ignored RB, Merc, and Ferrari and just watched Renault v McL v Alfa. Much tighter and better racing between them in every race so far.

Couldn't believe Ricciardo picked up two penalties :eek: Nothing like last race, he was really just racing. That's genuinely bonkers...
 
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