F1 2021

[svensktoppen]

It's simple maths.

Lewis is on Max' gearbox. Max hits the brakes knowing full well worst case he gets a token penalty for causing a collision. He had been told to let Lewis past anyway and he knew he couldn't catch him on track this weekend.

Best case (for Max) he takes out the wing or punctures a tyre for Lewis giving Max the race win and the championship.

All to win, nothing to loose. It nearly worked, look at the state of Lewis' wing after.

Make no mistake, every single move is calculated and ruthless. Max and RB will do anything to win. The rights holders are more than happy to let them.

It will be the exact same tactics next weekend.

Legal? Strictly speaking - yes. He gambled a token penalty against the championship.

Right or fair?

 

[dddrrift]

Yesterday was a shambles, but highly entertaining to watch. Both drivers are clearly doing anything and everything to win, including some dirt being thrown by both teams. With the money involved here its hardly surprising.

Both are clearly superb drivers, Lewis much cleaner with the experience and on paper, Max a bit rougher round the edges, but driving the doors off that Red Bull to bring the fight to Hamilton. Should make for an excellent finale! Looking forward to it!

 

[da.murf]

It's simple maths.

Lewis is on Max' gearbox. Max hits the brakes knowing full well worst case he gets a token penalty for causing a collision. He had been told to let Lewis past anyway and he knew he couldn't catch him on track this weekend.

Best case (for Max) he takes out the wing or punctures a tyre for Lewis giving Max the race win and the championship.

All to win, nothing to loose. It nearly worked, look at the state of Lewis' wing after.

Make no mistake, every single move is calculated and ruthless. Max and RB will do anything to win. The rights holders are more than happy to let them.

It will be the exact same tactics next weekend.

Legal? Strictly speaking - yes. He gambled a token penalty against the championship.

Right or fair?

 

[CloudStrife]

Look at the state of Max from the helicopter. So he's moving from side to side. Is that normal behaviour?

None of the blame for the accident can be placed on Hamilton.

 

[Mr.Mint]

Always remember the way Senna won the Championship in Suzuka in 1989.

Just saying... lol

 

[pablo]

Max would need to be VERY shrewd to pull it off with the amount of telemetry now. Any hint of him doing it on purpose would surely see him lose the championship.

 

[svensktoppen]

Not when all he gets is an X second slap on the wrist penalty and some licence points, like this time. If Lewis doesn't finish or ends up with a damaged car then that is all Max needs, penalties don't matter then.

It very nearly worked too. Just a little more damage to Lewis's wing and Max would have been world champion today.

Just like all the times he left track and forced Lewis to take avoiding action.

All Max needs is for Lewis not to finish, or force an extra pit stop.

 

[Jbridges522]

Look at the state of Max from the helicopter. So he's moving from side to side. Is that normal behaviour?

None of the blame for the accident can be placed on Hamilton.

But that entire clip max was slowed to let him past and there was miles of room to pass on the left, and didn't move side to side until LH had also slowed and followed right behind him. Lewis created a dangerous situation and Max was stupid enough to force the accident as he tends to be at times.

They were both playing games and it ended in an accident, surely you agree max had left more than enough room and slowed down more that enough for LH to pass on the left?

I still agree that Max ultimately caused the accident by sharply breaking a 2nd time and deserves his penalty for his general driving in the race as much as anything .

But I can't understand why Hamilton got involved in the stupid games when ultimately he was always winning the race with Max's tyres.

 

[pablo]

Track position is still king and a series of safety cars could have saved Max.

 

[CloudStrife]

But I can't understand why Hamilton got involved in the stupid games when ultimately he was always winning the race with Max's tyres.

That's a big assumption when anything could have happened. Given Max's ruthless nature why should Lewis have taken any chances? He could have gotten him on his own terms.

 

[svensktoppen]

Max only "left room" while Lewis was still catching up, and even then sat on the clean side, forcing Lewis to the dirty side just before the DRS line. Alonso and a few other tried that tactic too recently and got penalised for it. And that's before the brake testing.

Then as soon as Lewis went for a pass Max started weaving in front and slammed the brakes on.

He knew full well all he would get was a slap on the wrist for causing a collision.

Just a little more damage to Lewis' wing and Lewis would have been unable to challenge. Championship done, regardless of penalties.

Max knew exactly what he was doing. Just like in all the other "incidents".

Some people like that ruthlessness. Some don't. It clearly makes for good TV so the rights holders do.

 

[CloudStrife]

I despise the ruthlessness. I hated Schumacher as well.

Max will still be a brilliant driver if he cuts that out and should win a WDC some day even if not this year.

 

[cauld1]

Schumacher was my hero, barring the Villeneuve incident in 1997 he was bang on most of the time.

Max has more than a bit of Senna about him, dirty driving, getting on as if it's his god given right to drive that way.

The cynic in me thinks it was a slap on the wrist comparatively because Hamilton was able to keep going and ultimately win as well as keeping things level into the last race.

Max would be very foolish to try anything daft and cheat like Senna etc, but I'm not sure he'd have the presence of mind to think of that in the heat of the moment.

 

[CloudStrife]

The cynic in me thinks it was a slap on the wrist comparatively because Hamilton was able to keep going and ultimately win as well as keeping things level into the last race.

Oh 100%

 

[KevM]

 

[davecoupe]

Masi was a **** show yesterday. The grid never should have been reordered for the restart, the stewards should decide that, the race director shouldn’t be ‘making offers’ to reorder the grid during a red flag. FIA need to have a good long look at themselves with inconsistencies and (imo) some poor decisions this season. In Brazil, max didn’t have to give the place back after he and Lewis ran off the road in a very similar incident to the T1 incident yesterday, but he was ordered to give it back this weekend. Not saying who was right or wrong in either case, but it’s inconsistent. I think the FIA have contributed too much to the whole thing this season, probably starting with the mishandling of the silverstone incident.

The max/Lewis incident itself, the evidence showed Max braked which I don’t like at all, but……what if his front wing had collapsed under the car or if he had another issue, he would have braked or dramatically reduced speed then too. Any time a driver has a catastrophic engine failure they brake and try to get stopped asap. Different category of racing but the driver who braked in front of Billy Monger wasn’t penalised for braking. Surely it is the responsibility of the driver behind to avoid the collision, just like it is out on the road. It sets a strange precedent where if a driver slows on the circuit for any reason when not in a braking zone and another driver crashes into the back of them, the car in front gets penalised?

Overall, I think the result of the race was correct, but I don’t agree with the retrospective penalty.

Makes for an exciting final race anyway.

 

[CloudStrife]

grid never should have been reordered for the restart, the stewards should decide that, the race director shouldn’t be ‘making offers’ to reorder the grid during a red flag.

I think you're wrong here. The race director makes this call. The stewards would have awarded a penalty if Max hadn't given the place back.

 

[davecoupe]

I think you're wrong here. The race director makes this call. The stewards would have awarded a penalty if Max hadn't given the place back.

Yes, race director makes that call under normal circumstances. But it’s totally unprecedented to reorder the grid for a restart. It happened on the second last race of the closest title fight since ‘78.

I think the stewards should have made the decision.

 

[KevM]

The entire race was a S*** Show from start to finish, it was always going to be. Far too much interference and almost no natural flow to the actual racing, it just turned into a game of Roulette. Max, if he had any sense of maturity, should have hit the reset button on Saturday evening and mellowed before Sunday. Id say, he almost went the other way. None of his antics were necessary and he gained nothing beyond what anyone would have predicted for Sunday, which was an RB second place. He just made himself look bad, again.

In other news, I was almost screaming at the TV for Bottas to get past Ocon in the last couple of laps. I'm really glad he got 3rd and I genuinely think he's in a really good place now. Lewis will miss his wing-man. Its also a miracle Alonso didnt collect anyone when the car left him! It would have been a massive accident

 

[Captain Starlet]

Masi was a **** show yesterday. The grid never should have been reordered for the restart, the stewards should decide that, the race director shouldn’t be ‘making offers’ to reorder the grid during a red flag. FIA need to have a good long look at themselves with inconsistencies and (imo) some poor decisions this season. In Brazil, max didn’t have to give the place back after he and Lewis ran off the road in a very similar incident to the T1 incident yesterday, but he was ordered to give it back this weekend. Not saying who was right or wrong in either case, but it’s inconsistent. I think the FIA have contributed too much to the whole thing this season, probably starting with the mishandling of the silverstone incident.

The max/Lewis incident itself, the evidence showed Max braked which I don’t like at all, but……what if his front wing had collapsed under the car or if he had another issue, he would have braked or dramatically reduced speed then too. Any time a driver has a catastrophic engine failure they brake and try to get stopped asap. Different category of racing but the driver who braked in front of Billy Monger wasn’t penalised for braking. Surely it is the responsibility of the driver behind to avoid the collision, just like it is out on the road. It sets a strange precedent where if a driver slows on the circuit for any reason when not in a braking zone and another driver crashes into the back of them, the car in front gets penalised?

Overall, I think the result of the race was correct, but I don’t agree with the retrospective penalty.

Makes for an exciting final race anyway.

The difference being the telemetry showed that max braked, accelerated and THEN braked again excessively, not to mention swerving at the same time.

If it was a collapsed front wing, or engine failure you would slow as quickly as possible, and get off the racing line when safe to do so.

The driver infront should certainly be penalised if they dramatically brake outside of a braking zone for no reason.

 

[Blackie]

It's nothing to do with immaturity. Max and RB know exactly what they're doing.

I both agree and disagree with this statement.

Yes I agree that they know what they’re doing, but I disagree with the immaturity aspect.

Max took a gamble and he lost out re the brake checking. He all but stormed off the podium in an obvious strop! That shows the lack of maturity he has.

After all his yammering about Lewis being disrespectful by celebrating his win at Silverstone, the least Max could’ve done was show some humility and take part in the traditional podium celebrations.

Edit:- and I’d say the storming off the podium was all to do with immaturity than anything even remotely linked to remorse!! We all know Max doesn’t do “guilt”.

 

[Gibbo]

Wow, this shows just how delusional Max is, of course he went off line you forced him too...

 

[KevM]

Hes on the White lines

 

[svensktoppen]

The max/Lewis incident itself, the evidence showed Max braked which I don’t like at all, but……what if his front wing had collapsed under the car or if he had another issue, he would have braked or dramatically reduced speed then too. Any time a driver has a catastrophic engine failure they brake and try to get stopped asap. Different category of racing but the driver who braked in front of Billy Monger wasn’t penalised for braking. Surely it is the responsibility of the driver behind to avoid the collision, just like it is out on the road. It sets a strange precedent where if a driver slows on the circuit for any reason when not in a braking zone and another driver crashes into the back of them, the car in front gets penalised?

It could have been any of all those things and then it would just have been a "racing incident".

But he deliberately and forcefully braked unexpectedly for no reason at all, causing a collision. So he got penalised for that.

In close racing drivers rely on each other to behave in a predictable manner. Hence rules against causing collisions through erratic or deliberate behaviour.

 

[PaulYDP]

The max/Lewis incident itself, the evidence showed Max braked which I don’t like at all, but……what if his front wing had collapsed under the car or if he had another issue, he would have braked or dramatically reduced speed then too. Any time a driver has a catastrophic engine failure they brake and try to get stopped asap. Different category of racing but the driver who braked in front of Billy Monger wasn’t penalised for braking. Surely it is the responsibility of the driver behind to avoid the collision, just like it is out on the road. It sets a strange precedent where if a driver slows on the circuit for any reason when not in a braking zone and another driver crashes into the back of them, the car in front gets penalised?

To address the first part, in all those circumstances the driver would immediately move off the racing line to safety, not park it on the racing line! It would also be a consistent reduction in speed and not weaving about - just look at the helicam showing Max moving etc. It was unsafe plain and simple. Do you think Max would have tried the same thing if he wasn't leading the championship knowing it could have taken the two of them out? Unlikely.

On your Billy Monger comment - just WTF!? The driver of the other car was stationary on track, his car ground to a halt on the racing line, he couldn't move it. Billy was completely unsighted by a car in front of him swerving at the last minute. A completely unavoidable incident. Not sure what that had to do with the racing yesterday but maybe get the facts right before trying to use it to bolster your arguement!