Home charging point

-Pete-

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I wouldn’t want a cable lying on the ground like that knowing that it’s permanently live.
The cable to the car in some cases carries 440v, but it’s designed for this purpose, to be lying on ground etc
I saw that, for the high power one at 22kw it needs a three phase supply. Aye that would certainly stiffen the legs alright if you nicked through it!
 

salster

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has anybody with an EV after so long in an old school fuelled car ever jumped into the car in a hurry and driven off with the charging lead attached or is there built-in protection in the EV to stop this?
 

saxo_man

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has anybody with an EV after so long in an old school fuelled car ever jumped into the car in a hurry and driven off with the charging lead attached or is there built-in protection in the EV to stop this?
I don’t think it’s possible. There have been a couple of times I’ve went to start the car with the lead attached and it wont move.
 

stevieturbo

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Im still referring to the cable that in the above (and other installations) seems to be routinely tacked to the wall right at ground level, not the actual cable coming from the pod itself to the car. The one on the ground would always be live 240v . maybe alls well, if the time comes for me to have one installed, it will be in conduit and well up off the ground either way.

It seems mechanical protection for the cable is the least of the worries..

Earthing requirements for EV charging seem to be quite awkward ! And I'm sure many are not doing it correctly.



Im still referring to the cable that in the above (and other installations) seems to be routinely tacked to the wall right at ground level, not the actual cable coming from the pod itself to the car. The one on the ground would always be live 240v . maybe alls well, if the time comes for me to have one installed, it will be in conduit and well up off the ground either way.

There is no rational to have a cable in conduit if the cable itself is suitable....and if you did insist on conduit, the cable type would then of course change anyway.
 

911c4s

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Jeepers guys didn't think a couples of pics would trigger so much conversation. Charger is installed with EIC by installer who has recently registered on government grant scheme using this install as an example of work so should meet all current legal requirements and from my side keeps rights for house insurance. Cable is 6mm with appropriate RCD so well rated for the application. Pete could have had a conduit if I wanted but preferred this for tidiness.

Pete don't go onto the Tesla facebook page you will be horrified when you see some examples of the installs on there. Your keyboard would be on fire :laughing::laughing:
 

-Pete-

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Jeepers guys didn't think a couples of pics would trigger so much conversation. Charger is installed with EIC by installer who has recently registered on government grant scheme using this install as an example of work so should meet all current legal requirements and from my side keeps rights for house insurance. Cable is 6mm with appropriate RCD so well rated for the application. Pete could have had a conduit if I wanted but preferred this for tidiness.

Pete don't go onto the Tesla facebook page you will be horrified when you see some examples of the installs on there. Your keyboard would be on fire :laughing::laughing:

Honestly, not even remotely worried despite how it might come across here. As per previous, Doesn't matter a hoot to me what people do with their own stuff or safety. Not my interest or problem. (y)

I was/am genuinely curious how it all stacked up legally and with regards to insurance considering someone installing this is messing with mains power (and possibly three phase) and potentially compromising their house insurance. In this day and age when people are declaring wheel changes or remaps on a car to avoid falling foul of insurance, and mains wiring having so many stringent regulations, I just wanted to see where this fell amongst all that.
Especially if it's something that could be rolled out in the near future then it doesn't hurt to have a bit more knowledge on the subject.

Ignorance is bliss is a two way street. my keyboard is safe :laughing:
 

VinR

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With the mention earlier of 3 phase being needed for some setups, is it always possible to get a 3 phase supply to your home. I would imagine it would be quite expensive.
 

Graham

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I'm seeing a lot more PHEV landing on my drive and soon due the first ever EV press car to come to NI. Living semi-rural, it means that there will likely be the need for a charging port on my home within the next year, I'd assume.

What would be recommended and what sort of costs, for a home port that can charge any make/model as there will come a point where i will have a different brand of PHEV/EV every week.
 

Mark Irwin

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After 2.5 years of this I can definitely say tethered is the way to go; you can always change the cable if it came to that but unlikely if it is type 2.
 

stevieturbo

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Cable is 6mm with appropriate RCD so well rated for the application.

Which as the links I posted show....are largely of little concern in terms of the issues surrounding charging points.
With the mention earlier of 3 phase being needed for some setups, is it always possible to get a 3 phase supply to your home. I would imagine it would be quite expensive.

Unless it was an absolute monster of a house, or something that had a lot of outbuildings, maybe a large farm...it will not have 3 phase.

And yes, to get 3 phase in....it will be a very expensive digging exercise with NIE.
 

911c4s

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Which as the links I posted show....are largely of little concern in terms of the issues surrounding charging points.


Unless it was an absolute monster of a house, or something that had a lot of outbuildings, maybe a large farm...it will not have 3 phase.

And yes, to get 3 phase in....it will be a very expensive digging exercise with NIE.
i put a 3 phase double 11kw charger into our work for charging both my car and another ev in work. Charge at home is around 26m/hr gain and the one in work is around 45m/hr gain.

I imagine as it progresses some of the superhomes being built will install a supercharger (150kw) and now that will be expensive
 

-Pete-

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@stevieturbo there's a couple of decent installs for this I just watched. swa or conduit and cable up of the ground at socket height. neatly done by the guy.

 

stevieturbo

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Most don't involve conduit, as largely it's pointless.

But from the safety side of things, and compliance, it does seem that the Zappi2 is about the only one to go for.

Been watching quite a few videos on it recently, and it does seem a bit of a minefield in terms of complying with the regs and safety. As most simply cannot be compliant as some of the other videos I linked show. I guess if Zappi have sorted it though, other brands will surely follow.

Going forward, this could turn into a problem when EV's become even more common, although you'd hope other manufactures or charging sockets get their act together, along with those making the regs.

But when households start having 2 or 3 EV's, and they are in most households, the main grid is going to be ****ed if everyone is using the network to the max unless it can be massively supplemented locally with solar....but that doesn't work at night when most might want to charge.
Or wind which might....except everyone will cry about massive wind turbines in ever house.
 

hutchy_belfast

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Solar plus battery and flexible tariffs are becoming more popular on the mainland. People program the batteries to charge when grid supply outstrips demand and the price drops below Xp then charge the car or supply the local demand as necessary. Seems much too forward thinking for here though. We'll just keep paying folk to burn wood to heat their sheds in July while allowing a near monopoly in both electricity and gas to charge much more than the rest of the uk.
 

stevieturbo

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Solar plus battery and flexible tariffs are becoming more popular on the mainland. People program the batteries to charge when grid supply outstrips demand and the price drops below Xp then charge the car or supply the local demand as necessary. Seems much too forward thinking for here though. We'll just keep paying folk to burn wood to heat their sheds in July while allowing a near monopoly in both electricity and gas to charge much more than the rest of the uk.

I'd imagine a full and actually usable install like that could well be into 5 figures ? And probably take a few decades to actually pay off...and most would have moved house by then.

And there isn't really a monopoly, everyone has an option of generating their own electric if they can do it cheaper. Whether that's gas, a big generator, solar, wind, whatever.
But it would be a hell of an expensive investment.
 

hutchy_belfast

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I'd imagine a full and actually usable install like that could well be into 5 figures ? And probably take a few decades to actually pay off...and most would have moved house by then.

And there isn't really a monopoly, everyone has an option of generating their own electric if they can do it cheaper. Whether that's gas, a big generator, solar, wind, whatever.
But it would be a hell of an expensive investment.
Around £7k for 4kW panel array (the most you are 'allowed' by the grid without jumping through hoops apparently) and a big but cheap racked battery array ie no Tesla powerwall. A bit less if you are putting on a single story not needing scaffolding or if you can avoid vat. If it was going to let you 'fuel' a car or two and/or nearly be off grid or load up with 2p/kwh or sometimes even get paid to charge, you could make the investment back sooner than that. Depends on your fuel and electricity requirements obviously.
 

mk2driver

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Around £7k for 4kW panel array (the most you are 'allowed' by the grid without jumping through hoops apparently) and a big but cheap racked battery array ie no Tesla powerwall. If it was going to let you 'fuel' a car or two and/or nearly be off grid or load up with 2p/kwh or sometimes even get paid to charge, you could make the investment back sooner than that. Depends on your fuel and electricity requirements obviously.

Have you seen any good links when reading about home battery arrays? I have the solar panels already and can see me having an EV in the next 12 months so could work well for me

A friend has had the first generation Powerwall since it was released to complement his panels and thinks its great
 

hutchy_belfast

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Have you seen any good links when reading about home battery arrays? I have the solar panels already and can see me having an EV in the next 12 months so could work well for me

A friend has had the first generation Powerwall since it was released to complement his panels and thinks its great
Pylontech and sofar seem to be the cheaper storage options that people talk about that I've seen. I've zero experience of any of these products. Just researching as if I could convince myself I'm not moving for 10 years I'd go for it.
 

-Pete-

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That could be a big consideration for a lot of people to avoid it altogether. I've not wanted to put any solar in since I'm definitely going to be moving well before its even close to being paid off and its still a poor domestic option unless you can get access to the panels to keep them spotless to keep up your charging rates. I've never actually looked into it, but wind turbines must surely be an option since they could be going 24hours a day year round versus solar taking such a massive ding in autumn and winter months.
 

stevieturbo

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Around £7k for 4kW panel array (the most you are 'allowed' by the grid without jumping through hoops apparently) and a big but cheap racked battery array ie no Tesla powerwall. A bit less if you are putting on a single story not needing scaffolding or if you can avoid vat. If it was going to let you 'fuel' a car or two and/or nearly be off grid or load up with 2p/kwh or sometimes even get paid to charge, you could make the investment back sooner than that. Depends on your fuel and electricity requirements obviously.

When it seems to take 80-100kW to fully charge say a Tesla...a 4kw array isnt going to go far. Even say 10 hours at night, it's still 60kW shy. Or is that 4kW per panel, with multiple panels ?

As you say, if you forget about the grid and can use it to power the house, charge a car, heat water, heat the house etc etc.....long term if there is an actual usable amount of electric it could make some sense.
But I guess most houses simply dont have enough area for a really functional set of solar panels in terms of what they produce to become anywhere near self sufficient ? Even with a massive outlay for batteries etc.....which then itself would surely carry legal/safety issues ?
That could be a big consideration for a lot of people to avoid it altogether. I've not wanted to put any solar in since I'm definitely going to be moving well before its even close to being paid off and its still a poor domestic option unless you can get access to the panels to keep them spotless to keep up your charging rates. I've never actually looked into it, but wind turbines must surely be an option since they could be going 24hours a day year round versus solar taking such a massive ding in autumn and winter months.

It is usually windy...but not always either. And really it'd take a pretty huge turbine to make any worthwhile power....not something practical at every domestic property, and you can be sure every neighbour for miles would gurn about it and planning permission etc.

Really you'd want to live near a river, in a windy area where it also gets some sun....and get something installed in the river, a wind turbine and solar panels lol
 

hutchy_belfast

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When it seems to take 80-100kW to fully charge say a Tesla...a 4kw array isnt going to go far. Even say 10 hours at night, it's still 60kW shy. Or is that 4kW per panel, with multiple panels ?

As you say, if you forget about the grid and can use it to power the house, charge a car, heat water, heat the house etc etc.....long term if there is an actual usable amount of electric it could make some sense.
But I guess most houses simply dont have enough area for a really functional set of solar panels in terms of what they produce to become anywhere near self sufficient ? Even with a massive outlay for batteries etc.....which then itself would surely carry legal/safety issues ?


It is usually windy...but not always either. And really it'd take a pretty huge turbine to make any worthwhile power....not something practical at every domestic property, and you can be sure every neighbour for miles would gurn about it and planning permission etc.

Really you'd want to live near a river, in a windy area where it also gets some sun....and get something installed in the river, a wind turbine and solar panels lol
I'm pretty sure it's 4kw rated total. Like german cars most seem to be capable than a bit more than rating. Personally I'm putting 60kw a week on the ipace. There wouldn't be many running through a high range tesla top to bottom daily. If I were doing that many miles I'd be wanting old fashioned diesel personally. The big savings seem to be in combining the renewable supply with a smart charging system and variable tariff. There are loads of people getting literally paid to charge their batteries over night if it's windy on the octopus agile tariff. Then next generation of EVs when they can charge car to house you pretty much have another huge house battery.
 

mk2driver

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There’s no perfect solution - I benefitted as the panels were here when we bought the house

They benefit from the higher feed in tariff but have paid for themselves in 8.5 years just based in the feed in payments. Not bad when the tariff continues for 25 years and the reduction in energy bills which is harder to quantify as it varies but I estimate our energy bills are 20-30% less that an equivalent household
 

Mark Irwin

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I have 2 x solar systems between the garage and house roof total of 8.5 kwh with 9.6 kw battery. A few weeks ago on a sunny day it put 32 kw into my E Golf as well as heating the water and running the house. It is unlikely that you are ever going to have to fully charge a fully depleted EV battery (and some say you should not unless using it right away) so thinking that you have to be able to cover a full charge with your solar/battery is not where it is at. What it does do is significantly reduce your electric bill and gives you choices about how/when to charge your car. I also have economy 7 so can charge the car at night and also charge the solar batteries at 8 pence per kw and then use it when tariff is more expensive early in the morning/late evening and if it is very overcast. The Zappi2 charger is a game changer compared to my old charger and the 3 different settings are brilliant.
 
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