adzy
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Going well there mate! Nice and smooth.
Looked like a good day with not too much traffic on track
Looked like a good day with not too much traffic on track
My 2003 Civic Type R EP3
- Thread starter Neil_M
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Just stay safe and have fun, who cares how anything "compares".
There will always be people who drive harder (that is, who don't care if they crash, or have to be towed home) or faster. None of that matters even in the slightest.
The biggest smile at the end of the day is the winner
Pick someone at your own "level", whatever they happen to be in, and just have a bit of fun trying to catch up. Have had more fun against old MkI/II Golfs driven well than anything else
There will always be people who drive harder (that is, who don't care if they crash, or have to be towed home) or faster. None of that matters even in the slightest.
The biggest smile at the end of the day is the winner
Pick someone at your own "level", whatever they happen to be in, and just have a bit of fun trying to catch up. Have had more fun against old MkI/II Golfs driven well than anything else Neil_M
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Just stay safe and have fun, who cares how anything "compares".
There will always be people who drive harder (that is, who don't care if they crash,or have to be towed home) or faster. None of that matters even in the slightest.
The biggest smile at the end of the day is the winner
100% right and exactly what I do
.Still that doesn't stop me trying to make the car or myself faster.
If only it would stay dry for a few days so I can get stuck in
.adzy
RMS Regular
Cheers man, the second half of the day was bang on.
I tend to join the back of the queue so I'm lapping round in an attempt to catch up lol
Plenty more room for improvement though (i.e. need to grow a set).
Better to keep doing consistent smooth laps and chipping away at times.
Problem is when you go out and decide your going to grow a set, things can go wrong lol
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^^^ This 
^^^
^^^Neil_M
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As mentioned previously the AC wasn't working on the EP3. Rather than fix it, my solution was to remove it (after being properly evacuated). More than anything I was interested to see what it weighed, don't worry I'm not expecting a massive performance improvement...
Starting into the removal process (bare in mind I was winging it here). Airbox and battery are removed at this stage, as are the pipes going through the firewall into the matrix, the pipe running along the scuttle and the other running down the passenger side wing.
Some time later I was left with this. So far the removal of these parts has not been difficult. We have the condenser, drier and most of the pipe work, bolts and brackets.
This last pipe was a real **** to remove. It runs along the bottom of the engine radiator and has two bolts holding it in place. Access was limited, so a few bruised and scratched arms later it was removed.
The AC pump itself was still fitted. So prior to removing it, I needed to change the belt to the shorted non AC belt. It's a straight forward belt change, with no additional work required. Space is limited as the pulleys are quite close to the chassis leg. I found it easier to remove the old belt, by loosening the tensioner, popping the belt off the top pulley, sliding it off the alternator and pushing it down as best I could. Then under the car, all I had to do was unhook it off the AC pump and crank pulley. Note many people state you have to take the arch liners out. You actually have plenty of clearance between the front lower arm, underneath the car.
Fitting the new belt was straight forward. I found it easier to push the new belt down from above. Tweaking the belt round the pulley's a few times, relieving the tensioner and sliding the belt onto the top idler pulley. Job done!
A hole was left in the firewall where the pipes fed into the matrix, this naturally couldn't be left as is. So the hole was measured up, after some searching of on-line part diagrams I found the correct Honda grommet, I've pictured it fitted and the part number.
Part No: 91631-S5A-000.
Next was to remove the pump. I didn't think there was room to push it out the side of the wheel arch, so it seemed the only way was out through the front of the car. So that means bumper off and radiator removal.
The bolts for the condenser were on pretty tight and there wasn't much clearance. But persistence paid off and the four bolts were removed, along with the pump itself.
The scrap pile is now a little bigger. All in this weighs in at 10kg. Not massive weight savings, but it all helps, especially off the front end. Naturally the shorter belt and one less pulley to turn will add a minuscule improvement. Also the condenser being in front of the radiator won't help engine cooling, so the radiator now has a direct flow of air.
Due to the engine radiator being exposed, I didn't want to risk it being hit out on track, so I added some mesh the bumper. Nothing fancy, just gardening spec galvanized mesh, which I painted black.
As a note, I left the AC fan fitted to the radiator. I felt the additional fan (while not that powerful) was a benefit. This still functions with the engine radiator, so a little extra cooling is provided (both fans kick in at the same time), useful when on track and it works well with the already upgraded engine radiator... I'm quite glad, as I was planning to wire it in to do that after the AC was removed.
While the battery and airbox was out I also wanted to replace the shifter springs. I found the upgraded springs I had previously fitted seemed to struggle with the heavy Hybrid Racing shifter cables. So the matching Hybrid Racing springs were fitted. I may also have painted the top of shifter assembly and the shifter cable support bracket, while I was there...
A little video of me installing the springs is below.
Gears seem to be engaging smoothly, so hopefully that helps. I will also fit some upgraded detend springs in due course too.
The shifter mechanism removed, leaving a hole in the gear bag.
Back in place after a lick of paint.
Another "while I was in there" job was to replace the chassis leg brace. I previously painted the original one, but it was rotten... I've had a replacement sitting in the garage for too long. It was replaced.
The old v new...
I could probably run without it as it seems to have the structural rigidity of a wet piece of toilet roll, but it's shiny! Fitted with new bolts of course...
Then while I have access, I gave a few things a quick wipe down.
Then it's time to bleed the cooling system and make sure there is no leaks. I also tweaked the fitment of the airbox to make sure it was fitting perfectly. As mentioned above both the AC and radiator fan start at the same time, as they previously did, I was able to confirm that while bleeding the system.
A quick test drive proves everything is a-ok.
I've created a video, should the process be of use to anyone else...
Then the next stage was to support some pub talk banter by getting the car weighed.
The brochure states 1204kg which may be without air con...
Taking things on face value I've shaved 44kg off the car. Not bad at all. Though I'd love some quick wins to get even more off it.
Starting into the removal process (bare in mind I was winging it here). Airbox and battery are removed at this stage, as are the pipes going through the firewall into the matrix, the pipe running along the scuttle and the other running down the passenger side wing.
Some time later I was left with this. So far the removal of these parts has not been difficult. We have the condenser, drier and most of the pipe work, bolts and brackets.
This last pipe was a real **** to remove. It runs along the bottom of the engine radiator and has two bolts holding it in place. Access was limited, so a few bruised and scratched arms later it was removed.
The AC pump itself was still fitted. So prior to removing it, I needed to change the belt to the shorted non AC belt. It's a straight forward belt change, with no additional work required. Space is limited as the pulleys are quite close to the chassis leg. I found it easier to remove the old belt, by loosening the tensioner, popping the belt off the top pulley, sliding it off the alternator and pushing it down as best I could. Then under the car, all I had to do was unhook it off the AC pump and crank pulley. Note many people state you have to take the arch liners out. You actually have plenty of clearance between the front lower arm, underneath the car.
Fitting the new belt was straight forward. I found it easier to push the new belt down from above. Tweaking the belt round the pulley's a few times, relieving the tensioner and sliding the belt onto the top idler pulley. Job done!
A hole was left in the firewall where the pipes fed into the matrix, this naturally couldn't be left as is. So the hole was measured up, after some searching of on-line part diagrams I found the correct Honda grommet, I've pictured it fitted and the part number.
Part No: 91631-S5A-000.
Next was to remove the pump. I didn't think there was room to push it out the side of the wheel arch, so it seemed the only way was out through the front of the car. So that means bumper off and radiator removal.
The bolts for the condenser were on pretty tight and there wasn't much clearance. But persistence paid off and the four bolts were removed, along with the pump itself.
The scrap pile is now a little bigger. All in this weighs in at 10kg. Not massive weight savings, but it all helps, especially off the front end. Naturally the shorter belt and one less pulley to turn will add a minuscule improvement. Also the condenser being in front of the radiator won't help engine cooling, so the radiator now has a direct flow of air.
Due to the engine radiator being exposed, I didn't want to risk it being hit out on track, so I added some mesh the bumper. Nothing fancy, just gardening spec galvanized mesh, which I painted black.
As a note, I left the AC fan fitted to the radiator. I felt the additional fan (while not that powerful) was a benefit. This still functions with the engine radiator, so a little extra cooling is provided (both fans kick in at the same time), useful when on track and it works well with the already upgraded engine radiator... I'm quite glad, as I was planning to wire it in to do that after the AC was removed.
While the battery and airbox was out I also wanted to replace the shifter springs. I found the upgraded springs I had previously fitted seemed to struggle with the heavy Hybrid Racing shifter cables. So the matching Hybrid Racing springs were fitted. I may also have painted the top of shifter assembly and the shifter cable support bracket, while I was there...
A little video of me installing the springs is below.
Gears seem to be engaging smoothly, so hopefully that helps. I will also fit some upgraded detend springs in due course too.
The shifter mechanism removed, leaving a hole in the gear bag.
Back in place after a lick of paint.
Another "while I was in there" job was to replace the chassis leg brace. I previously painted the original one, but it was rotten... I've had a replacement sitting in the garage for too long. It was replaced.
The old v new...
I could probably run without it as it seems to have the structural rigidity of a wet piece of toilet roll, but it's shiny! Fitted with new bolts of course...
Then while I have access, I gave a few things a quick wipe down.
Then it's time to bleed the cooling system and make sure there is no leaks. I also tweaked the fitment of the airbox to make sure it was fitting perfectly. As mentioned above both the AC and radiator fan start at the same time, as they previously did, I was able to confirm that while bleeding the system.
A quick test drive proves everything is a-ok.
I've created a video, should the process be of use to anyone else...
Then the next stage was to support some pub talk banter by getting the car weighed.
The brochure states 1204kg which may be without air con...
Taking things on face value I've shaved 44kg off the car. Not bad at all. Though I'd love some quick wins to get even more off it.
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Great work there, quite a handful
Good to leave the extra fan. Being a track car losing all the AC gubbins will not just remove dead weight but also not zap power from the engine.
It will get hot though, but this is NI so no bother, lol
Good to leave the extra fan. Being a track car losing all the AC gubbins will not just remove dead weight but also not zap power from the engine.
It will get hot though, but this is NI so no bother, lol
j44nty
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It would probably surprise you what hp you gain from not having the extra drag. Pfi just had an H22 na drag 8hp on an auxiliary belt. Might be 2 or 3 from a compressor who knows. Good work
Neil_M
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Cheers man. You could well be right, not sure how noticeable it would be real world. It's all in the finer details.
I do have to say the AC pump / clutch spins freely. But your right, theory would suggest it should all help, hence the reason she was ripped off
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Easily sub 1:10 now, no excuses left
Neil_M
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Ah I forgot to put that into the blog, I did actually look at it...
I weighed the OE battery at 12kg. An Odyssey 680 (I think that is the model) is 6-7kg.
There are also some kits that mount it down low, below where the current battery tray is. Naturally another benefit. +0.7kg.
Approx 5kg saved, with some weight being lowered.
Would you suggest any other batteries?
IL
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Yeah the PS09 Powerlite would be ideal for your car.
Its fully MSA Approved and the price includes a charger!
Powerlite - Suppliers of Starter Motors and Alternators
powerlite-units.com
1.4kg - So significant saving for £100
I have the PS05 for my Racecar, will start and run a 2L High Compression Vauxhall 4 Cylinder on Injection.
Neil_M
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Yeah the PS09 Powerlite would be ideal for your car.
Its fully MSA Approved and the price includes a charger!
Powerlite - Suppliers of Starter Motors and Alternators
1.4kg - So significant saving for £100
I have the PS05 for my Racecar, will start and run a 2L High Compression Vauxhall 4 Cylinder on Injection.
Thanks very much for the info man
, thats straight onto the shopping list.Approx 10kg saving for £100 is not bad at all
.I'd read very mixed reviews on the Odyssey batteries, so wasn't totally keen on them.
Only had good experiences with them personally. But when if I need to change batteries again in the future I will be going for a super light weight lithium ion one.
adzy
RMS Regular
Good work! Should also help improve the efficiency of your radiator now too.
Where did you weigh it? Wouldn’t mind seeing what mine weighs sometime
Where did you weigh it? Wouldn’t mind seeing what mine weighs sometime
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Looked into those race batteries for the Lotus a couple of years ago. The manufacturer back said they weren't really suitable for road cars because of the constant load of stuff running all the time, and potential deep discharges... More for race cars that use them to start and that's about it...
No idea if there is still something to that or not...
Not that there is a lot of electrical stuff on the Lotus that is constantly running. Just the alarm really, but that's enough to discharge the standard lead battery if the car isn't running for a few days.
The Li stuff is a lot cheaper now though, and probably better too.
No idea if there is still something to that or not...
Not that there is a lot of electrical stuff on the Lotus that is constantly running. Just the alarm really, but that's enough to discharge the standard lead battery if the car isn't running for a few days.
The Li stuff is a lot cheaper now though, and probably better too.
Neil_M
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Exactly, I'd say the condenser being old wasn't letting all the air it could through.
It was a distribution company with a very accurate weigh bridge. My dad has literally just retired from the company, so even I wouldn't probably have access...
I've read exactly the same sir. However whether it's marketing bumpf or not, supposedly it's less of an issue these days, as technology moves on.
However I notice a few people still recommend an isolator with them, which may well suit some people.
Then the batteries above come with a charger too...
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I think an isolator is the way to go, Li batteries really don't like deep discharges. As long as you don't mind re-programming the radio, clocks, etc.
Also not sure how bump start works with these? The dedicated chargers kind of hint at that as well, not sure you could just hook up a standard battery and bump start? Or how it works with standard alternators?
Also not sure how bump start works with these? The dedicated chargers kind of hint at that as well, not sure you could just hook up a standard battery and bump start? Or how it works with standard alternators?
Neil_M
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Time for another track day. This will be the first one since removing the AC.
I have to say I noticed no difference at all, I'm not really surprised to be honest. However I believe I missed a bracket that holds the AC pump onto the front of the engine, it's a chunky piece of metal, so I'll see if that can be easily removed. That may save a few grammes.
More importantly the Civic lapped round all day without a problem.
My first recorded session is below (I think it was my third of the day). A great mix of cars out in this session.
However much more fun was getting out on a session with @acsmyth in his Clio RS 200. We had been trying to do this for some time.
Going out with a car of similar capabilities and a very competent driver was exactly what I needed to keep me on my toes and push the car that bit harder.
The cars were quite closely matched. The Civic had the legs on the Clio when wound up, however the Clio did have a little more initial punch. However the big win for the Clio like many Renault Sport cars is the magical chassis, I could see the Clio in my mirrors, it was able to turn so much harder and sharper than the Civic, which seemed to help massively in the hairpin.
I appreciated the Civic's capabilities much more after this session, it's much better than me and has loads more in it. Being pushed on I started going back to using better lines, getting on the power earlier, braking later and the Civic responded perfectly. I'll be more than happy if I keep improving. All in all, a brilliant day.
Videos from both cars are below.
From the Civic...
From the Clio...
Also a quick video of clips from the earlier sessions are below. That gives some idea of the mix of cars that go (spot the RMS members).
I have to say I noticed no difference at all, I'm not really surprised to be honest. However I believe I missed a bracket that holds the AC pump onto the front of the engine, it's a chunky piece of metal, so I'll see if that can be easily removed. That may save a few grammes.
More importantly the Civic lapped round all day without a problem.
My first recorded session is below (I think it was my third of the day). A great mix of cars out in this session.
However much more fun was getting out on a session with @acsmyth in his Clio RS 200. We had been trying to do this for some time.
Going out with a car of similar capabilities and a very competent driver was exactly what I needed to keep me on my toes and push the car that bit harder.
The cars were quite closely matched. The Civic had the legs on the Clio when wound up, however the Clio did have a little more initial punch. However the big win for the Clio like many Renault Sport cars is the magical chassis, I could see the Clio in my mirrors, it was able to turn so much harder and sharper than the Civic, which seemed to help massively in the hairpin.
I appreciated the Civic's capabilities much more after this session, it's much better than me and has loads more in it. Being pushed on I started going back to using better lines, getting on the power earlier, braking later and the Civic responded perfectly. I'll be more than happy if I keep improving
. All in all, a brilliant day.Videos from both cars are below.
From the Civic...
From the Clio...
Also a quick video of clips from the earlier sessions are below. That gives some idea of the mix of cars that go (spot the RMS members).
