PHEV Home Charge Point Recomendations

stevieturbo

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When they install these charge points....do they also install a new meter for charging at a different tariff, ( like old economy 7 type of thing ), or is it just normal full whack ?

The talk of 7kW or higher is a fair amount over an extended period. I'm sure some rural homes having that on top of the rest of the domestic use, maybe an electric shower etc....could start to push the incoming supply.
I know the mains supply into my own house is ***** !

16 miles?

Hybrids seem to have a crap battery only range. But it's less about mpg or mileage use....more about reduced emissions. The likes of moving off, accelerating etc will be the highest emissions outputs...so if this can be done on electric, it can help clean things up, then light cruise at speed or hard accel where power is absolutely needed...taken over via the petrol/diesel engine.
Plus if most driving in say a city centre can be done on that small battery....again the goal is reduced emissions outputs in those areas.

And then when back out in the open the IC engine can also re-charge the battery again if needed.

I dont think I've ever seen the likes of Prius, where I havent seen stuff coming out the exhaust though. I wonder what they're really like in that regard ? Now even more so as they're quite a few years old and batteries probably half scrap.
 

saxo_man

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When they install these charge points....do they also install a new meter for charging at a different tariff, ( like old economy 7 type of thing ), or is it just normal full whack ?

The talk of 7kW or higher is a fair amount over an extended period. I'm sure some rural homes having that on top of the rest of the domestic use, maybe an electric shower etc....could start to push the incoming supply.
I know the mains supply into my own house is ***** !



Hybrids seem to have a crap battery only range. But it's less about mpg or mileage use....more about reduced emissions. The likes of moving off, accelerating etc will be the highest emissions outputs...so if this can be done on electric, it can help clean things up, then light cruise at speed or hard accel where power is absolutely needed...taken over via the petrol/diesel engine.
Plus if most driving in say a city centre can be done on that small battery....again the goal is reduced emissions outputs in those areas.

And then when back out in the open the IC engine can also re-charge the battery again if needed.

I dont think I've ever seen the likes of Prius, where I havent seen stuff coming out the exhaust though. I wonder what they're really like in that regard ? Now even more so as they're quite a few years old and batteries probably half scrap.

I rarely charge mine through the 13a sockets but when I did at the start you could feel the socket and plug getting really hot to touch! My current setup is wired directly to the consumer unit to its own RCD. It ‘only’ uses 3.5kW as it charges, not much more than an immersion heater.
 

Sportwag

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They don't install a new meter - it runs off your existing meter. I haven't used the 13a socket that came with the car as it takes too long. The Type 2 charger is capable of 7kW but mine is only running around half that (9.2 kW battery) and I have no problems with showers, immersion running concurrently. I have also noticed the battery range drops off in cold weather not helped by lights, heating wipers etc. PHEV is early adopter techology but my last car was a Merc Bluetech Hybrid and 3-4 years on, it's still a fairly cutting edge car!
 

genman

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They don't install a new meter - it runs off your existing meter. I haven't used the 13a socket that came with the car as it takes too long. The Type 2 charger is capable of 7kW but mine is only running around half that (9.2 kW battery) and I have no problems with showers, immersion running concurrently. I have also noticed the battery range drops off in cold weather not helped by lights, heating wipers etc. PHEV is early adopter techology but my last car was a Merc Bluetech Hybrid and 3-4 years on, it's still a fairly cutting edge car!
You may not have a problem now but in years to come as more people are forced to electric etc the local substation will have a problem... Most of the local grid is already near max capacity
 

bull20

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You may not have a problem now but in years to come as more people are forced to electric etc the local substation will have a problem... Most of the local grid is already near max capacity

I would have thought that there would be a relatively small increase in draw for vehicle charging during the day, with the majority of charging done during the evening/night when there is likely to be spare capacity and the vehicle is parked at home?

I also think I read somewhere about using recycled batteries to hold a charge which can be delivered to your car at a certain point in time. Allowing it to charge using solar energy or cheaper electricity at night and lowering the strain on the grid. Something similar to this: Link
 

genman

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I would have thought that there would be a relatively small increase in draw for vehicle charging during the day, with the majority of charging done during the evening/night when there is likely to be spare capacity and the vehicle is parked at home?

I also think I read somewhere about using recycled batteries to hold a charge which can be delivered to your car at a certain point in time. Allowing it to charge using solar energy or cheaper electricity at night and lowering the strain on the grid. Something similar to this: Link
The grid in winter relies heavily on 3rd party power sources... Wind farms.. Generators and so on just to keep going... Industry eats it up by day and at peak times its tight as is.... 1 to 2 hrs of everyone needing a recharge is going to hit hard.
The battery idea is just that... An idea and unless they start building vehicles with fork truck like battery packs it will never work out... Plus they'd all need to use the same battery.
The main land are pushing hard to add more generators to the grid every year but it's a case of an expanding demand and a fixed size Landbase. BY 2040 the population will also have grown as will car volumes... It's a vicious circle.
A relatively easy solution is for everyone to use gas powered generators at their homes etc... No bigger than a dog box and for other areas with limited space such as flats to use a larger unit to feed multiple homes.... That way the grid infrastructure gets hit less.
 

gpaevo

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I see Tesla has two designated parking spaces and charge points at bloomfields in Bangor. Bit random I thought.

I only ever see one Tesla round the town lol.
 

Neil_M

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Battery tech has plenty of room for improvement. It's going to be more and more a limiting factor.

However there is lots going on with wind and solar generation and batteries to store the charge.

On a good / clear day, you should be able to charge a car for "free".

That IMO is where the technology is heading.

The government should be pushing this more and more in NI.
 

Ace_vaux

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NIE have imposed zero output to grid from most new pv and wind installations I see coming through work now. The existing infrastructure isn’t good enough to allow all the current pv and wind to feed back without serious upgrade which they can’t afford. That’s why most domestic installations use it to heat water once it hits ‘zero’.

I’ve priced a few jobs with battery storage as a solution, the most recent was £500k worth of batteries in a storage room the size of a 40ft trailer to give 3 hours battery life!! Absolute joke in the cost!! There has to be a better solution out there to maximise the collection and storage at an affordable cost.
 

saxo_man

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On a good / clear day, you should be able to charge a car for "free".

On max output, our solar panels would just be sufficient to charge my car as long as nothing else was on in the house.

I divert unused generated electricity into my immersion heater then what ever is left is sold back to the grid for 5p.

I looked into batteries myself, 10 years to break even pretty much if you use it to it’s max on a daily basis. Not worth it (yet).
 

Neil_M

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NIE have imposed zero output to grid from most new pv and wind installations I see coming through work now. The existing infrastructure isn’t good enough to allow all the current pv and wind to feed back without serious upgrade which they can’t afford. That’s why most domestic installations use it to heat water once it hits ‘zero’.

I’ve priced a few jobs with battery storage as a solution, the most recent was £500k worth of batteries in a storage room the size of a 40ft trailer to give 3 hours battery life!! Absolute joke in the cost!! There has to be a better solution out there to maximise the collection and storage at an affordable cost.

Very interesting mate, thanks for the info.

We are heating water with two solutions, charging a battery and exporting to the grid currently at home.

Like most of these things, the aim is to alleviate the need to constantly buy electricity, oil etc.
 

Neil_M

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On max output, our solar panels would just be sufficient to charge my car as long as nothing else was on in the house.

I divert unused generated electricity into my immersion heater then what ever is left is sold back to the grid for 5p.

I looked into batteries myself, 10 years to break even pretty much if you use it to it’s max on a daily basis. Not worth it (yet).

As you know none of these things are short term investments...

An extra encouragement with the battery was not to sell back to the grid. It's just not worth it. We might as well store an amount and use it.

The battery management is quite intelligent and will try to save you money based on your usage.

My only nuance with the current set-up is that during a power cut, the panels are cut off and won't run off the battery. They need a level of power to operate.
 

saxo_man

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As you know none of these things are short term investments...

My only nuance with the current set-up is that during a power cut, the panels are cut off and won't run off the battery. They need a level of power to operate.

Regarding the battery, for the one I was quoted for, with an estimated ten year life span (and undoubtedly out of date tech at that point) in my view it’s not an investment in any shape or form, long or short! It would cost £300 a year to buy (based on a ten year lifespan) and you can only save 90p electricity per day. Obviously price per unit will go up but then battery efficiency will go down too.

I agree about the inverter not running when power is off, that’s an annoyance alright.
 

genman

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I wouldn't be surprised if another part of the zero export to the grid is the boardroom worrying about profits.
 

Gavlar

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I see Tesla has two designated parking spaces and charge points at bloomfields in Bangor. Bit random I thought.

I only ever see one Tesla round the town lol.
They've two charging stations at junction 1 swell, had to take a double look lol
 

stevieturbo

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Economy 7 style heaters need a comeback for all these home produced electricity setups.

Where electric cannot be sold for profit or stored....it should be pumped into heating the home, not just water for the immersion etc. But as most homes here are heated by oil or gas, there is little way to make use of any excess.

Unless a separate electric water heater could be used and them that pumped around the heating circuits. Although it'd probably need a hell of an excess ! But even if it could provide some heat, it would still be a cost saver, and E7 storage heaters although ugly...are in many ways an ideal solution.

I recall working in the Ordnance survey building at Stranmillis. They had the biggest electric water heating system I'd ever seen ! Not sure exactly what it was used for as they were removing it when I was there, but by **** it was massive with 4 huge electric heating elements in a water tank near the size of a 40ft container.

They had some fun cutting that ****er up to get it out of the building through a normal doorway lol
 

genman

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It would be straightforward to plumb in an emersion style heater into a central heating circuit... Would not give instant heat but it would certainly offset the fuel needed to raise the system temp on each boiler startup.
Large single phase up to 12kw heaters are made by Hotstart for commercial engines.... I'm surprised it's not part of the normal install with solar systems.
Summer time however it's back to square one unless also plumbed into the hot water or a secondary tank for laundry car washing and so on.
 

Lappintyre

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@Lappintyre did you buy a 350e Estate...? If so what’s your thoughts...?

Yeah. Had it since May 17, almost 25k miles on it. Averaging around 35/36 mpg combined. Most of my driving is motorway, long runs to Dublin and back 3/4 days per week.

Went for the AMG premium line with most available extras.

It’s a very comfy place to be,eats up the long journeys very well, has some mid-top range grunt but not a pile. Never feels it’s suggested 290 combined BHP.

Handling even isn’t as precise as the previous car, F31 330d touring. Maybe it’s the battery at the rear, but the BM was much more involved, gave me a lot more confidence in the bends.
 

Amos

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Yeah. Had it since May 17, almost 25k miles on it. Averaging around 35/36 mpg combined. Most of my driving is motorway, long runs to Dublin and back 3/4 days per week.

Went for the AMG premium line with most available extras.

It’s a very comfy place to be,eats up the long journeys very well, has some mid-top range grunt but not a pile. Never feels it’s suggested 290 combined BHP.

Handling even isn’t as precise as the previous car, F31 330d touring. Maybe it’s the battery at the rear, but the BM was much more involved, gave me a lot more confidence in the bends.

Thinking of one as a company car due to the BIK, but the AMG line is above the 0-50 bracket. If you drive it on petrol what MPG does it do? Is there now a hybrid version instead of the PHEV.
 

Lappintyre

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Thinking


Thinking of one as a company car due to the BIK, but the AMG line is above the 0-50 bracket. If you drive it on petrol what MPG does it do? Is there now a hybrid version instead of the PHEV.

That’s the reason I got mine, but the sport just didn’t cut it for me so sacrificed the few £££ per month for the AMG, was still a good saving for me vs the 330d.

In reality 90% of my driving is on petrol. Electric Range is a suggested 16 miles. I’ve eaked that out to 19 a few times, but it’s rare and takes some doing.


I know Merc are working on a new line up but not 100% sure of the details.

If you don’t need an estate I’d steer you toward the BMW 330e. But if like me it’s an estate you need, it’s either the 350 or a Passat GTE..
 

Amos

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That’s the reason I got mine, but the sport just didn’t cut it for me so sacrificed the few £££ per month for the AMG, was still a good saving for me vs the 330d.

In reality 90% of my driving is on petrol. Electric Range is a suggested 16 miles. I’ve eaked that out to 19 a few times, but it’s rare and takes some doing.


I know Merc are working on a new line up but not 100% sure of the details.

If you don’t need an estate I’d steer you toward the BMW 330e. But if like me it’s an estate you need, it’s either the 350 or a Passat GTE..

Unfortunately I need an estate or SUV with children and dogs..

Had the T8 XC90 for the weekend last week, but it only did 22mpg around the town, and 26mpg to the North Coast...

Will call with Mercedes this week and see what they say...

Cheers for the info. A
 
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