Plug in hybrids

Mark Irwin

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I know this can be a bit controversial but as mine always uses electric to drive the wheels thought I would sneak it in here.

Been driving a Vauxhall Ampera plug in hybrid for the last 2 years now and have to say it is one of the most amazing vehicles I have ever owned. After being a petrol head all my life (and still have my mk1 & mk2 golfs) what this car can actually do in the real world is phenomenal - over the last 35000 miles it has averaged 335 mpg as most of it has been on electric and only about 4k or so on petrol generating the electrons. I reckon it is saving me 2.5 - 3 k per year on fuel and tax costs in addition to having the performance of an old 205 GTI. Add this to being able to heat or cool the car remotely via the key fob means that you never have to get into an icy car on a frosty morning or a roasting car during the summer. It also looks pretty cool, has a 30 gb hard drive, reversing camera, Bose sound system, sat nav, heated seats, cruise and lots of other cool stuff. Understand that it will not appeal to everyone but it is genuinely enjoyable to drive with 273 lbs of torque from zero revs so getting away from the lights is a breeze.
 

stevieturbo

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But in order to achieve economy....you need to always do short journeys, so you can plug it in at each end ?

If you were to drive to say Dublin and back for a day trip....you arent going to see anywhere near that claimed mpg ?
 

Apis

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The EV snobs hate us, but the thought of a hybrid intrigued me, especially plug ins. The "self-charging" ones like the Toyotas didn't have the same appeal.

I'd thought about the Ampera but I went for the Outlander PHEV instead because I preferred the higher loading boot, SUV, 4x4, etc.
It's performance and handling is dull but it's great for what I do; 12 miles each way commute, the odd practical job over rough roads, roof rack, 4x4, dog in the back, and an occasional longer trip. The wifi phone app/heater timer is nice and I love the 360deg cameras for parking or hooking up the trailer. It tows very well and torque from standstill is brilliant, but the official limit is only 1500kg.
I'm typically doing between 70-150mpg. If I do a long run/motorway where it uses the engine more, it drops to around 38-50mpg.

In Japan they already have car to house reverse chargers, so the PHEV can be used as a power source in times of natural disasters.
Here's an interesting article..

Mitsubishi Gears Up To Provide PHEVs When Disasters Occur In Japan
 

svensktoppen

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The Outlander is a great real world car, you'll enjoy it for what you need 👌

Had a Forester rental this summer and it was brilliant, a real positive surprise. Not a PHEV, just the petrol. Exactly as you describe above, lol - not the most dynamic of cars, cough, but superbly comfortable and practical. Fully loaded even in rental spec. Did everything asked of it. Did nearly 4000 miles in two weeks and it was great.
 
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leek9

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have been keeping an eye on GTE Golf prices but i car share so only drive to work once a week usually (23miles)

The car should be able to do it on electric power alone in ideal conditions and hyper-miling but not sure i would see the benefit

currently getting low 60's to the gallon in a VW diesel.
 

Boydie

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If travelling to Dublin and back to Belfast, would it be beneficial?
Would you need to look at the likes of Tesla for that larger mile capacity?
 

svensktoppen

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If travelling to Dublin and back to Belfast, would it be beneficial?
Would you need to look at the likes of Tesla for that larger mile capacity?

A plugin hybrid would be all but pointless on a long commute like that. You'd be running the petrol engine most of the way. Their main attraction is short journeys, avoiding inner city congestion charges, etc.

For pure EV, realistically expect to get 2/3 of the "official" miles for any car.

The numbers are more realistic than before but still optimistic. You will use the heater in winter and air-con in summer, you will use lights and radio and all the rest of it. You're not going to run it from 100% to zero between every charge. And the range will reduce gradually over time as the batteries deteriorate (though not the cliff-edge you get with phone batteries).

The bulk of a Belfast-Dublin commute would be almost all at motorway speeds which probably reduces the range a little as well, although it's constant speed which is good.

An official 200 mile range should do Dublin no bother if you are sure to be able to recharge at either end. Plenty of options coming up with that range.

Going there and back would probably be borderline even with a 300 mile range. Fewer options at 300 miles, and they're not the cheap ones.

Do the maths with the higher ownership costs (monthly payments, etc.) v. lower running costs (fuel/electricity, etc.). Just depends as usual.
 

Gavlar

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Volvo Polestar2 (Full EV) is rumoured to have a 275 mile range and 402bhp
 

Apis

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If travelling to Dublin and back to Belfast, would it be beneficial?
Would you need to look at the likes of Tesla for that larger mile capacity?
Better with a diesel. A PHEV would be a disadvantage. I suppose a Tesla would be good for this and I see there are some Tesla chargers at the service station north of Dublin if you were running short.
 

Lyons

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So whilst trawling AT for a potential replacement for Mrs Lyons, I stumbled across these;

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201912205516810?atmobcid=soc4

A plug-in (or any Hybrid for that matter) is not something I have ever looked at before. Her commute is 18miles each way, so effectively a single charge would do 75% if her daily driving. She only works 3 days a week and the other days would be scooting about up to 30miles.

My main question is, how sore on electric at home is it to charge plug-ins for the 2.5hrs this takes? By the time you factor electric prices being an absolute fortune these days, are you really likely to benefit from any great saving?
 

svensktoppen

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It will still be cheaper than buying equivalent petrol.

The main thing to work out is the higher cost to buy vs a cheaper petrol that will still return a decent mpg. Get the spreadsheet out.

A PHEV is really a tax dodge, but over short(ish) journeys at city speed they can return good mpg. Assuming you charge every day of course.

Watch out for the type of driving as well though, not just distance, as a PHEV typically only goes electric at low speeds (city driving). Anything much over 30, or if you use the throttle, and the petrol engine will kick in anyway.
 

Apis

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So whilst trawling AT for a potential replacement for Mrs Lyons, I stumbled across these;

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201912205516810?atmobcid=soc4

A plug-in (or any Hybrid for that matter) is not something I have ever looked at before. Her commute is 18miles each way, so effectively a single charge would do 75% if her daily driving. She only works 3 days a week and the other days would be scooting about up to 30miles.

My main question is, how sore on electric at home is it to charge plug-ins for the 2.5hrs this takes? By the time you factor electric prices being an absolute fortune these days, are you really likely to benefit from any great saving?
If it's any help, I bought my Outlander PHEV from this same garage (Witham) in the summer past. They specialise in PHEVs and EV; They had quite a few Teslas and 11 Outlanders when I was there. Flew to Birmingham, Train to Melton Mobray, short taxi and back to the boat that evening. Easy to deal with.

Mine will do over 70mph on electric only, if on the flat, accelerating fairly easy. But I tend to hit the "SAVE" button to keep the electric for the slower speeds and use the engine when over 50ish.
 

Gavlar

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It will still be cheaper than buying equivalent petrol.

The main thing to work out is the higher cost to buy vs a cheaper petrol that will still return a decent mpg. Get the spreadsheet out.

A PHEV is really a tax dodge, but over short(ish) journeys at city speed they can return good mpg. Assuming you charge every day of course.

Watch out for the type of driving as well though, not just distance, as a PHEV typically only goes electric at low speeds (city driving). Anything much over 30, or if you use the throttle, and the petrol engine will kick in anyway.
New Prius Plug In can go EV only mode up to 70mph for 25 miles
 

davyk31

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If going for a reasonably priced second hand PHEV the Golf GTE is hard to look past. Drives just like any Golf and has a decent turn of speed when you get both the petrol and electric power together in GTE mode. Plenty for sale now as they have been very popular as company cars for BIK benefits.

Still would probably buy a GTI though if a personal buyer rather than a company car.

Have driven a Countryman PHEV for a few days before we got the M135i and also had a 330e for a few days before Christmas which was a great drive too.
 

Mark Irwin

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Mark Irwin
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Mine charges overnight on economy 7 for about 1 quid. I travel from Dungannon to Newry/Portadown/Armagh regularly with my work and a full charge will get me there and then I can usually plug in somewhere. Supposed to do up to 50 miles on a full charge but more like 30 - 40 miles real world although I did get 47 miles one day during the summer. If you are bombing up and down motorways regularly then this is not the car for you but if you drive a mixture of A, B and motorway roads then this will be perfect. I do 18K per year so it is not all short journeys and this will take me to most destinations; if I have to do half electric and half petrol it works out at about 70 -80 mpg. Like everything in life you need to try it in the real world.
 

Mark Irwin

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Mark Irwin
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If travelling to Dublin and back to Belfast, would it be beneficial?
Would you need to look at the likes of Tesla for that larger mile capacity?
If travelling to Dublin and back regularly you would probably be better off with a good turbo diesel or Kia ENiro, Hyundai Kona electric etc.
 

saxo_man

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Do Economy 7 meters even exist anymore ?

Yes Stevie we switched to E7 18 months ago to charge up the EV we have. It’s 9p a unit at night, and we have the car set on it’s in built timer. Comes on at say 1:30am and charges for a few hours. It usual takes just over £2 but it’s never fully empty. That will get around 90-100 miles on the clock. NIE will change the meter for you for free.
Before that we just relied on the solar panels as the car we previously had only drew 3.5 kWh when charging, and own panels generated similar. The new car needs over 7 so it wouldn’t have been economical to charge during the day.
 

saxo_man

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So whilst trawling AT for a potential replacement for Mrs Lyons, I stumbled across these;

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201912205516810?atmobcid=soc4

A plug-in (or any Hybrid for that matter) is not something I have ever looked at before. Her commute is 18miles each way, so effectively a single charge would do 75% if her daily driving. She only works 3 days a week and the other days would be scooting about up to 30miles.

My main question is, how sore on electric at home is it to charge plug-ins for the 2.5hrs this takes? By the time you factor electric prices being an absolute fortune these days, are you really likely to benefit from any great saving?

Funny we test drove a phev mini and the salesman was very honest and said 13 miles on a charge. And then the fact the whole thing is being driven round with a 1.5 3 cylinder petrol engine with 136 BHP after that. No thanks. Plus it’s a mini 🤢
 

Apis

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Yes Stevie we switched to E7 18 months ago to charge up the EV we have. It’s 9p a unit at night, and we have the car set on it’s in built timer. Comes on at say 1:30am and charges for a few hours. It usual takes just over £2 but it’s never fully empty. That will get around 90-100 miles on the clock. NIE will change the meter for you for free.
Before that we just relied on the solar panels as the car we previously had only drew 3.5 kWh when charging, and own panels generated similar. The new car needs over 7 so it wouldn’t have been economical to charge during the day.
Does the E7 suit the rest of your home/lifestyle as well, or did you just switch over because of the car? Do you have E7 economy heating for example?
I've considered switching to E7 but not sure if it's really worth it with having oil fired heating. No solar either. My car (outlander) takes about 11kWh per charge.
 

Mark Irwin

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Mark Irwin
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We had a BMW 225XE as a courtesy car for a while and the most it would do on electric was 18 miles compared to 25 miles quoted.
 

saxo_man

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Does the E7 suit the rest of your home/lifestyle as well, or did you just switch over because of the car? Do you have E7 economy heating for example?
I've considered switching to E7 but not sure if it's really worth it with having oil fired heating. No solar either. My car (outlander) takes about 11kWh per charge.

The unit price for normal day rate isn't that much different to the standard rate, and even with the surcharge for E7, it's still significantly cheaper. It was for the car only
 

Apis

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The unit price for normal day rate isn't that much different to the standard rate, and even with the surcharge for E7, it's still significantly cheaper. It was for the car only
Thanks, might be worth it. I'll have another look.
 

Mark Irwin

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Mark Irwin
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Mostly for the car but also set dishwasher and washing machine to come on about 6 am and can use oil filled electric heaters too which definitely makes it worth your while compared to standard tariff.
 
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