Reality of EV...

[syecadelic]

Maybe I've missed the right place for this but thought it worth a chat.

Peugeot 208e... a car billed at 180 miles , actually more by manufacturer.. only a year old with a few thousand miles covered...

I sold a customer one who soon realised it was far from the 180 mile range. So we decided to bring it back and credit him his money. A member of staff drove the car very few miles and soon learnt that it wasn't ideal.

The member of staff drives a PHEV Outlander so doesn't have the need for "Range Anxiety" and also has his home wall charger.. with the Mitsi connection.....

After less than 100 miles of driving, sensible might I add, and a light right foot the car had dropped to very low range, i.e sub 15! Heres the issue.. said staff member's home charging station is a different plug than that of the 208e , not ideal when you need a charge.

Can you imagine the hassle and drama should a hospital visit be required and you can't charge your car or you run out of range.

I guess where I am trying to go with this is... its mental how far off the manufacturer range the car is. Appreciating colder weather hurts the battery, but that's just nuts. Maybe its just me, or has anyone else stumbled upon this with their EV ?

I've toyed with an EV myself in the near future, a 2nd hand one, but this massive difference in range would really put me off.

 

[Marc]

I have owned an EV for the past 2 years. One with advertised 150mile range and the new one advertised 360 mile range.

You learn to make sure it’s topped up every other day incase you need to go somewhere in a hurry. Forget using it like a petrol car where you fill once a week or whatever.

In the winter you get two thirds of the advertised range.

Same goes for a petrol/diesel car, the MPG advertised is under optimal conditions.

 

[salster]

New Taxi Leaks​

S7auf lp066h19rc14sam9r050m ·

Mercedes owner 'horrified' new battery will cost him £15,000 - more than the car is worth
The eight-year-old car is currently worth approximately £12,850, according to Auto Trader
Ranjit Singh believed he was doing his bit for the environment when he bought a second-hand Mercedes Benz hybrid car four years - thinking its lower CO2 emissions meant it was greener than the alternatives.
However, he was stunned when the battery on the eight-year-old car failed recently and he was quoted £15,000 for a replacement - more than the current value of the car itself.
Ranjit, 63, who lives in the Knighton area of Leicester, bought the vehicle at a Mercedes Benz dealership for £27,000. An avid Mercedes fan, he was convinced he was doing the right thing by choosing a more environmentally-friendly car.
At the time of purchase, the car had done 49,000 miles and worked a treat until this year, he told LeicestershireLive this week.
He says he got the car checked by Mercedes Benz and was told that the battery had come to the end of its life after just eight years of motoring.
The car owner claims he was quoted £15,000 for a battery replacement - excluding labour costs which he was quoted would be roughly around £200 an hour.
He told LeicestershireLive: "I have always been a Mercedes customer and loved the cars they produce and we bought the car for its reliability.
"I'm horrified by what has happened. I feel I now have just two options - scrap the eight-year-old car or spend more than it is worth.
"We checked on Auto Trader and it says the car value now stands at just £12,850."
Mr Singh claimed that he went to see a hybrid specialist who advised him there was nothing else he could do and that there was no cheaper repair available.
According to Mr Singh, the specialist himself owned a 2018 Mercedes-Benz Hybrid and has the same problem.
He added: "We also looked online at Mercedes-Benz forums, and found a lot of people facing the same issues. I fear this is only going to get worse."
Mr Singh's daughter, Ramnik Kaur, 36, works in the motoring industry herself.
She said: "Dad is very disappointed, stressed and doesn't know what to do with the car. As a a retired person, he doesn't have that kind of money.
"Any reasonable person wouldn't expect a car that costs £27,000 would have a battery that would die after eight years.
"It almost feels like mis-selling on Mercedes' part. Had we known this expense was possible at the outset, he would not have purchased it in the first place.
"This information is not readily available and I've only found people discussing it in online forums."
However, Mercedes Benz says information is available online and customers are informed of the battery certificate upon purchasing.
A spokesperson told LeicestershireLive: "We have based the general information below on a 2014 Mercedes-Benz E-Class mild hybrid with a 125V high voltage battery, rather than a plug-in hybrid.
"In 2014, the 125V high voltage battery was covered by the standard three year manufacturer's warranty (unlimited mileage).
Source : LeicestershireLive. 

 

[syecadelic]

New Taxi Leaks​

S7auf lp066h19rc14sam9r050m ·

Mercedes owner 'horrified' new battery will cost him £15,000 - more than the car is worth
The eight-year-old car is currently worth approximately £12,850, according to Auto Trader
Ranjit Singh believed he was doing his bit for the environment when he bought a second-hand Mercedes Benz hybrid car four years - thinking its lower CO2 emissions meant it was greener than the alternatives.
However, he was stunned when the battery on the eight-year-old car failed recently and he was quoted £15,000 for a replacement - more than the current value of the car itself.
Ranjit, 63, who lives in the Knighton area of Leicester, bought the vehicle at a Mercedes Benz dealership for £27,000. An avid Mercedes fan, he was convinced he was doing the right thing by choosing a more environmentally-friendly car.
At the time of purchase, the car had done 49,000 miles and worked a treat until this year, he told LeicestershireLive this week.
He says he got the car checked by Mercedes Benz and was told that the battery had come to the end of its life after just eight years of motoring.
The car owner claims he was quoted £15,000 for a battery replacement - excluding labour costs which he was quoted would be roughly around £200 an hour.
He told LeicestershireLive: "I have always been a Mercedes customer and loved the cars they produce and we bought the car for its reliability.
"I'm horrified by what has happened. I feel I now have just two options - scrap the eight-year-old car or spend more than it is worth.
"We checked on Auto Trader and it says the car value now stands at just £12,850."
Mr Singh claimed that he went to see a hybrid specialist who advised him there was nothing else he could do and that there was no cheaper repair available.
According to Mr Singh, the specialist himself owned a 2018 Mercedes-Benz Hybrid and has the same problem.
He added: "We also looked online at Mercedes-Benz forums, and found a lot of people facing the same issues. I fear this is only going to get worse."
Mr Singh's daughter, Ramnik Kaur, 36, works in the motoring industry herself.
She said: "Dad is very disappointed, stressed and doesn't know what to do with the car. As a a retired person, he doesn't have that kind of money.
"Any reasonable person wouldn't expect a car that costs £27,000 would have a battery that would die after eight years.
"It almost feels like mis-selling on Mercedes' part. Had we known this expense was possible at the outset, he would not have purchased it in the first place.
"This information is not readily available and I've only found people discussing it in online forums."
However, Mercedes Benz says information is available online and customers are informed of the battery certificate upon purchasing.
A spokesperson told LeicestershireLive: "We have based the general information below on a 2014 Mercedes-Benz E-Class mild hybrid with a 125V high voltage battery, rather than a plug-in hybrid.
"In 2014, the 125V high voltage battery was covered by the standard three year manufacturer's warranty (unlimited mileage).
Source : LeicestershireLive. 

Heard of VW Golf E having a similar debacle, £8k for a battery replacement I think , car was just outside of the Battery warranty period too.. next issue, what happens the old batteries and shells,

welcome to the future

I've also realised I sound like an old man.. I'm not, I promise

 

[ossy2004]

Thousands of fresh enough cars per year scrapped due to expensive battery needing replaced…

So much greener and environmentally friendly eh

 

[Burt2000]

I would only have one about me while it’s still under manufacturers warranty, after that I’d be getting rid, hence leasing is the sensible option with anything electric or hybrid imo.

 

[andy9eleven]

The vast majority will be rentals from now on anyway. Then it'll be subscription/ride share model. The way we think and consume vehicles will change quite rapidly.

 

[syecadelic]

I would only have one about me while it’s still under manufacturers warranty, after that I’d be getting rid, hence leasing is the sensible option with anything electric or hybrid imo.

my thoughts too, if it sh!ts the bed so to speak its the lease company /manufacturer who have to worry about it.

 

[stevieturbo]

Yep, a very messy and throw away deal....with no real means to recycle yet. Nothing "green" about it really.

 

[Coog]

No one’s taking them to be ‘green’. Being green is the last thing on my mind

 

[Burt2000]

Even the little Renault Zoe we had about 7 years ago. The charger unit was faulty after about 6 months. £2500 to fix, not the sort of dough you just have lying about and that was on a small cheap car.

I fail to see how people will run them for years the way we do at present with ICE cars. Ok there is less moving parts but then they break it seems to happen in spectacular fashion. I wonder do the batteries become less efficient after so many cycles and do they need a complete overhaul after so many years too?

 

[Mickylad]

I have had an e-Up! for a few months now, range stated at 140-160 real world. In winter that is more like 80-100. Suits me though for my short commute.

Pros and cons to it, I've a (currently) free charger right beside work so very rarely charge at home being the main pro (fuel bill non existent) but the network of chargers and the constant faults at them is horrendous.

 

[big_pete]

No one’s taking them to be ‘green’. Being green is the last thing on my mind

Lol that’s the conception a lot of people seem to think. I couldn’t care less about the environment

 

[redxl77]

I wonder do the batteries become less efficient after so many cycles?

Bound to. Just like smartphones etc.

 

[Burt2000]

The heating on the etron would drop the range by about 30 mile or so on a full charge, that’s at max heat though(wife setting) if I have it on eco and about 20 or ao degrees it’s only a couple mile less that with no heat on. The temp it’s at makes all the difference.

 

[big cyril]

At present it makes sense mostly on a lease under warranty, as time goes by though independent specialists will start to appear enabling older EV’s to remain on the road without the main dealer workshop costs. I guess also it depends on battery longevity, jury’s out on that one.
After 20k miles in an ev I definitely want another ev when the current (joke) deal ends.

 

[southsky sunrise]

Had my first drive in one today… quite far enough, felt nauseous with no sounds, slid it up on the big dirty diesel truck and gave Greta the finger

 

[stevieturbo]

Another broke down ?

 

[Graham]

Maybe I've missed the right place for this but thought it worth a chat.

Peugeot 208e... a car billed at 180 miles , actually more by manufacturer.. only a year old with a few thousand miles covered...

I sold a customer one who soon realised it was far from the 180 mile range. So we decided to bring it back and credit him his money. A member of staff drove the car very few miles and soon learnt that it wasn't ideal.

The member of staff drives a PHEV Outlander so doesn't have the need for "Range Anxiety" and also has his home wall charger.. with the Mitsi connection.....

After less than 100 miles of driving, sensible might I add, and a light right foot the car had dropped to very low range, i.e sub 15! Heres the issue.. said staff member's home charging station is a different plug than that of the 208e , not ideal when you need a charge.

Can you imagine the hassle and drama should a hospital visit be required and you can't charge your car or you run out of range.

I guess where I am trying to go with this is... its mental how far off the manufacturer range the car is. Appreciating colder weather hurts the battery, but that's just nuts. Maybe its just me, or has anyone else stumbled upon this with their EV ?

I've toyed with an EV myself in the near future, a 2nd hand one, but this massive difference in range would really put me off.

I have found that WLTP petrol/diesel quoted range is almost perfect. On the other hand, WLTP stated EV range is just like diesel-gate, only with range, complete and utter ballix!

Also, I sat down with a dealer recently and worked out the costs of a particular car, over a 3-year term, at whatever miles. Done the sums for EV and a similar spec petrol version of the same make and model. At the end of the term the EV was at most, £200 cheaper over the three years. Not the savings people would make out to be.

 

[KevM]

Another broke down ?

An i-Pace in its natural habitat

 

[Coog]

I have found that WLTP petrol/diesel quoted range is almost perfect. On the other hand, WLTP stated EV range is just like diesel-gate, only with range, complete and utter ballix!

Also, I sat down with a dealer recently and worked out the costs of a particular car, over a 3-year term, at whatever miles. Done the sums for EV and a similar spec petrol version of the same make and model. At the end of the term the EV was at most, £200 cheaper over the three years. Not the savings people would make out to be.

Which car was it? How was it financed?

 

[syecadelic]

I have found that WLTP petrol/diesel quoted range is almost perfect. On the other hand, WLTP stated EV range is just like diesel-gate, only with range, complete and utter ballix!

Also, I sat down with a dealer recently and worked out the costs of a particular car, over a 3-year term, at whatever miles. Done the sums for EV and a similar spec petrol version of the same make and model. At the end of the term the EV was at most, £200 cheaper over the three years. Not the savings people would make out to be.

i cant justify that for only £200 savings and the stress / anxiety of running out of power / juice etc as you say, very low difference

 

[Marc]

I have found that WLTP petrol/diesel quoted range is almost perfect. On the other hand, WLTP stated EV range is just like diesel-gate, only with range, complete and utter ballix!

Also, I sat down with a dealer recently and worked out the costs of a particular car, over a 3-year term, at whatever miles. Done the sums for EV and a similar spec petrol version of the same make and model. At the end of the term the EV was at most, £200 cheaper over the three years. Not the savings people would make out to be.

Try doing the sums as a company car and 1% / 2% bik, the difference is incredible.

 

[Graham]

Try doing the sums as a company car and 1% / 2% bik, the difference is incredible.

Oh, without doubt. That's the reason I've got the 530d, as it's previous owner jumped at an enaq via work. That said, I know very, very few people who have a company car. But know via him that it makes sense for him.

When I write and talk to manufacturers and dealers, it's about Joe blogs taking pcp over a few years at 12k/annum. The dealer I spoke to about EV costs has financed more on pcp, than business deals, which was hugely surprising tbh, as I expected it mostly to be pch company cars.

 

[ger16v]

Check out youtube for the volkswagen e transporter abt - vw says it has a range of 80 miles on full charge
on youtube a tradesman charges it turns on the ignition and distance says 50 odd miles
and you have to drive it like a snail (has a max speed of 50 odd MPH)
costs as much to charge as to buy diesel
Apparently its quite common to see them on recovery trucks where they have suddenly run out of charge
WHAT IS THE POINT