Recommend a starter welder

FM155

RMS Regular
Messages
8,653
Drives
Alfa 155
I bought a Clarke 100e with my first student grant cheque in 1985 and still have it lol. I've changed the wire conduit for a teflon one and went with a BOC large bottle conversion after quickly getting sick of the disposable bottles. It has done some serious work, mostly car bodywork but lots of general fab work, making trailers etc. Wouldn't be without one for emergency repairs and getting bolts/studs out etc. Also bloody useful to be able to do your own bodywork, saves a fortune and will keep you in sh1te cars that really should have been scrapped forever. 👍
 

Coog

Admin
Messages
47,514
Drives
GTI
I bought a Clarke 100e with my first student grant cheque in 1985 and still have it lol. I've changed the wire conduit for a teflon one and went with a BOC large bottle conversion after quickly getting sick of the disposable bottles. It has done some serious work, mostly car bodywork but lots of general fab work, making trailers etc. Wouldn't be without one for emergency repairs and getting bolts/studs out etc. Also bloody useful to be able to do your own bodywork, saves a fortune and will keep you in sh1te cars that really should have been scrapped forever. 👍

Funny that's what I have. Well a Clarke but 170 amp one (after a run with a really crap Chinese yoke that nearly put me off welding forever). Also have a stick I bought off here for £20 which is great for firing into the boot of the car and working on heavier steel. I'm no fabricator though, just someone sticking bits of metal together in a shed to get a job done. Or patching up old scrap and exhausts up like yourself lol
 

roverspeed

RMS Regular
Messages
7,471
Location
Belfast
Drives
Insignia
I have a load of small bits off cuts that Pete Moore gave me ages ago for me to practise on, I even used some of them as gussets on projects I've built.

You are welcome to what's left in the bucket, is all clean steel with no rust.
 

stevieturbo

RMS Regular
Messages
21,096
Location
Antrim
Drives
Old Ford
As others say, don't waste your time with gasless.

And don't get the cheapest mask you can, it's worth spending say £100 for a good auto darkening mask with a decent sized lens #eyesmatter.

Gas itself is debatable. With BOC's deals in the last 5+ years or so, their gas is actually good value now. Albeit with their silly yearly rental charge.
But at around £60 for rental, and £60 for a fill...that bottle will last a very long time.

By comparison, say Hobbyweld HW5 and I presume Stargas pricing will be similar. I think they want £70 "deposit" for their small bottle, and last fill I got locally was £57. Quite an increase on the £30 or so when I first got the bottle.
And it'd probably take 3-4 small hobbyweld bottles to match a single BOC bottle.
So it actually represents terrible value for money, but if a very light user it removes that yearly rental charge. So if one bottle might last you 2-3 years, the non BOC bottles can make sense again despite the much higher cost, as it's offset by no rental.
When I was renting at their extortionate prices because they were the only option here years ago, I was paying around £120-130 a year for each bottle...and I must have paid that for 20+ years. Total and utter rip off. And similar prices for each refill too.
At least that has changed.

Really...step up the budget to closer to £500 and there will be lots of options. It's a long term investment and worth it. MMTS in Lisburn do a range of machines, a friend got a Parweld there a couple of years back at pretty keen prices. Much cheaper than online prices.
130-150A will do almost anything you'd need at home etc.
I've only had a 150A Murex machine since the mid 90's and apart from a couple of jobs, it's worked fine.
 

-Pete-

RMS Regular
Messages
4,067
As others say, don't waste your time with gasless.

And don't get the cheapest mask you can, it's worth spending say £100 for a good auto darkening mask with a decent sized lens #eyesmatter.

Gas itself is debatable. With BOC's deals in the last 5+ years or so, their gas is actually good value now. Albeit with their silly yearly rental charge.
But at around £60 for rental, and £60 for a fill...that bottle will last a very long time.

By comparison, say Hobbyweld HW5 and I presume Stargas pricing will be similar. I think they want £70 "deposit" for their small bottle, and last fill I got locally was £57. Quite an increase on the £30 or so when I first got the bottle.
And it'd probably take 3-4 small hobbyweld bottles to match a single BOC bottle.
So it actually represents terrible value for money, but if a very light user it removes that yearly rental charge. So if one bottle might last you 2-3 years, the non BOC bottles can make sense again despite the much higher cost, as it's offset by no rental.
When I was renting at their extortionate prices because they were the only option here years ago, I was paying around £120-130 a year for each bottle...and I must have paid that for 20+ years. Total and utter rip off. And similar prices for each refill too.
At least that has changed.

Really...step up the budget to closer to £500 and there will be lots of options. It's a long term investment and worth it. MMTS in Lisburn do a range of machines, a friend got a Parweld there a couple of years back at pretty keen prices. Much cheaper than online prices.
130-150A will do almost anything you'd need at home etc.
I've only had a 150A Murex machine since the mid 90's and apart from a couple of jobs, it's worked fine.

The stargas is actually dead on stevie, I use it for the mig and tig and the prices are good especially as they fill the bottle close to 200 bar (meant to be 200 but last couple have been a bit below annoyingly) I haven't looked at BOC in recent years but they would need to be significantly cheaper to warrant changing to a rental payment. maybe for the tig where more gas is used. I stick to 20 litre bottles as they're big enough for big jobs and still portable if i need to sling it in the boot for a mobile job somewhere. 47s are good but just a pain in the hole unless youve a big garage or shed to accomodate the space a welder and huge bottle takes up.
Parweld is a good shout too. my mig is a thermal arc 200amp combo machine and it does a fantastic weld, super smooth just wouldnt have the multi process mig like spray and multi pulse that a fronius or htp would have and the tig covers everything else (200 amp ac and dc)
 

stevieturbo

RMS Regular
Messages
21,096
Location
Antrim
Drives
Old Ford
The stargas is actually dead on stevie, I use it for the mig and tig and the prices are good especially as they fill the bottle close to 200 bar (meant to be 200 but last couple have been a bit below annoyingly) I haven't looked at BOC in recent years but they would need to be significantly cheaper to warrant changing to a rental payment. maybe for the tig where more gas is used. I stick to 20 litre bottles as they're big enough for big jobs and still portable if i need to sling it in the boot for a mobile job somewhere. 47s are good but just a pain in the hole unless youve a big garage or shed to accomodate the space a welder and huge bottle takes up.
Parweld is a good shout too. my mig is a thermal arc 200amp combo machine and it does a fantastic weld, super smooth just wouldnt have the multi process mig like spray and multi pulse that a fronius or htp would have and the tig covers everything else (200 amp ac and dc)

The Parweld he got was same, think it was 180A but a combo MIG/DC TIG. Unlikely he'll ever use that aspect of it...but does no harm having that option.
And the price on it was very good.
I had considered the Thermalarc myself a few years back, but as I had a 15kg roll of stainless which is bloody expensive it wasn't an option. That's been used, and tempted to change to a "smaller" 200A machine.

But yes for TIG, anything other than BOC would end up costing a fortune if you use it a lot. I don't use mine that often, but I still wouldn't change that bottle to some of the other gas companies.

But it pays to get a good machine. Buy a cheapy or bad one, and if it welds bad, you'll never know if it's you or the machine. At least with a good one if they're bad, it is very unlikely to be the machine.
Although some have said the same about gas, but I've never had any issue with the HW5 and my MIG compared to BOC.
 

bigsigh

RMS Regular
Messages
6,210
Drives
BMW M2
Ordered a 250 from R-tech and wondering now should I have stuck with the 180 , is there any disadvantage for going for the bigger machine? It says min amps is 30 with the 180 being 25 , this likely to be an issue ?
will be mostly for car bits and the odd bit about the farm
 

stevieturbo

RMS Regular
Messages
21,096
Location
Antrim
Drives
Old Ford
Less resolution and control at lower settings....ie on thin car stuff. Although it's good clean original steel it'll likely be fine. It's any rusty or rust thinned metal is the real **** to work near or with. But ideally you'd always cut out any rust entirely.

Plus the 250A machine will absolutely need a dedicated 32A supply when being used at higher amperages.

Even a 180A will need a 16A supply when being used at it's higher ranges.

Is their amperage setting variable, or a multi position switch ? I guess if it was variable, it would give slightly more options at the lower end.
Switches...less so. On car panel type work, my 15A Murex, I'd usually be on click 2 or maybe 3 out of 10. Very rarely would I ever use click 1.
 

Rob

RMS Regular
Messages
12,464
Drives
Amarok V6
What are you wanting to weld @pablo ? For your budget, a stick welder would be easier to live with, consumables are peanuts, but it’s for 2.5mm thick upwards - definitely not car bodywork. Good to learn the principles of welding though, and makes jumping across to mig at a later stage very easy. If you can stick weld, you can weld.
 

pablo

RMS Moderator
OP
pablo
Messages
66,994
Location
Glengrimley
I got this a couple of months ago, havent even turned it on

2020-09-25 19.11.20.jpg
 

-Pete-

RMS Regular
Messages
4,067
Ordered a 250 from R-tech and wondering now should I have stuck with the 180 , is there any disadvantage for going for the bigger machine? It says min amps is 30 with the 180 being 25 , this likely to be an issue ?
will be mostly for car bits and the odd bit about the farm
Nothing wrong with that at all. Yeh you would need a dedicated supply for running it at the top end but nothing wrong with running it lower of a 13amp as long as you've got healthy wiring in your garage or shed to feed it of the likes of a 20amp breaker. It will coast along and make easy work of most things youll be doing and it will not be breaking a sweat doing it. Plenty of overhead is always nice to have and just like compressors, youll have your duty cycle to consider so should you need it, the extra grunt is always there.
Also, R tech are very good, and their support is also excellent. Can't really go too far wrong and they use quality parts, My Tig welder hasn't skipped a beat from day one.
If you plan on having it planted in one location and not doing any travelling or mobile (generator powered) work then I would advise getting a commando plug mounted to the wall and give the full 30amp juice it wants and it will sing along happily.

I went for a 210 machine so it would still work from a 13amp at a push when needed so keeps portable work as a workable option and new i wouldnt need anything much heavier anyway, the stick and mig are there for that stuff.
 

Apis

RMS Regular
Messages
4,073
Location
NW
Drives
various
This hand-me-down welder must be in my family for near 50 years; the Pickhill Bantam oilcooled 180A, (AKA Farmer's Friend.)
I learnt to weld on it when I was about 8 year old.
I've seen it weld on highest amps, for hours on the trot and it just keeps going. Just a few times I've switched it to low range with thin rods and really surprised myself how I could weld thinner stuff that I thought was only MIG territory.
Seen them selling for as low as £50, which is well worth it.

Pic from internet, but same thing...
60035590_436038566970774_7076258812604186624_n.jpg
 

bigsigh

RMS Regular
Messages
6,210
Drives
BMW M2
Nothing wrong with that at all. Yeh you would need a dedicated supply for running it at the top end but nothing wrong with running it lower of a 13amp as long as you've got healthy wiring in your garage or shed to feed it of the likes of a 20amp breaker. It will coast along and make easy work of most things youll be doing and it will not be breaking a sweat doing it. Plenty of overhead is always nice to have and just like compressors, youll have your duty cycle to consider so should you need it, the extra grunt is always there.
Also, R tech are very good, and their support is also excellent. Can't really go too far wrong and they use quality parts, My Tig welder hasn't skipped a beat from day one.
If you plan on having it planted in one location and not doing any travelling or mobile (generator powered) work then I would advise getting a commando plug mounted to the wall and give the full 30amp juice it wants and it will sing along happily.

I went for a 210 machine so it would still work from a 13amp at a push when needed so keeps portable work as a workable option and new i wouldnt need anything much heavier anyway, the stick and mig are there for that stuff.
Thanks Pete , the wiring isn’t an issue, I ordered with the 32A plug and will have a socket to suit , was just reading on mig-welding forum and a lot of folks are saying about how they went with the 180 for carbodywork , and I was worrien a bit.
 

Daviddunlop83

RMS Regular
Messages
8,160
Location
N.Ireland
This hand-me-down welder must be in my family for near 50 years; the Pickhill Bantam oilcooled 180A, (AKA Farmer's Friend.)
I learnt to weld on it when I was about 8 year old.
I've seen it weld on highest amps, for hours on the trot and it just keeps going. Just a few times I've switched it to low range with thin rods and really surprised myself how I could weld thinner stuff that I thought was only MIG territory.
Seen them selling for as low as £50, which is well worth it.

Pic from internet, but same thing...
View attachment 303385

The old oil cooled welders are great job esp as you said welding for hours
 

-Pete-

RMS Regular
Messages
4,067
Thanks Pete , the wiring isn’t an issue, I ordered with the 32A plug and will have a socket to suit , was just reading on mig-welding forum and a lot of folks are saying about how they went with the 180 for carbodywork , and I was worrien a bit.
Usual scaremongering mixed with people not having a lot of real world knowledge half the time. as long as you dont crank your voltage up youll be grand. Im usually around the 17-18volt mark for 2-3mm wall box and the likes and then knock it back for thin stuff but travel speed also matters as well as heat built up or if you're doing outside corners etc. You'll be grand. oh and make sure your feed rollers are set up right and gripping the wire tight enough but not crushing it, that will make a big impact on your mig welding and the responsiveness when you pull the trigger.
Like most things, nice to have the extra power in reserve should you ever need it and buy once cry once.
I don't think I've ever had any of mine cranked up to max, maybe just over half way and it's been more than enough for heavy domestic stuff.
just keep turning it up till the breaker pops :laughing:
 

John_MK5

RMS Regular
Messages
978
Thanks Pete , the wiring isn’t an issue, I ordered with the 32A plug and will have a socket to suit , was just reading on mig-welding forum and a lot of folks are saying about how they went with the 180 for carbodywork , and I was worrien a bit.

Will be fine. I just change mine to 0.6mm wire when on light or stinky stuff. 0.8 for everything else.
 

John_MK5

RMS Regular
Messages
978
Happy days. What length is the torch? Probably too late but better off buying a long lead if your garage is big enough to warrant it.
Also, the £40 eBay welder trolleys are up to the task ok. I have a welder and plasma on one and hasn’t broke in two yet.
 

bigsigh

RMS Regular
Messages
6,210
Drives
BMW M2
Happy days. What length is the torch? Probably too late but better off buying a long lead if your garage is big enough to warrant it.
Also, the £40 eBay welder trolleys are up to the task ok. I have a welder and plasma on one and hasn’t broke in two yet.
3m I think as standard , from the reading I’ve done this torch is ok , but when it comes time to replace a binzle (no idea if that’s right spelling) with a 4m lead is a good upgrade


First project is weld up a trolley if you plan on moving it around the garage
It’s def on my todo
 

stevieturbo

RMS Regular
Messages
21,096
Location
Antrim
Drives
Old Ford
I just got a £40 4m torch from Weldpro for mine last time I needed one, and it's been very good.

Likewise to add a matching length ground cable although just DIY'd mine as it didnit use the quick connector thingy.

Does that welder itself not have wheels and a base for a bottle ? ie no trolley needed ?
 
Top