court summons

[tyroneblade]

last sept, i got stopped by police in belfast. they asked for me insurance and tax details (which i dont carry in the car with me). so they said 2 show em at my nearest station which is dungannon. i was told it was just a check, not a check and record at the police station. i showed my documents to da officer, and was told it was all ok. however, this morn, i received a letter in the post saying i was being proscecuted at a magistrates court in belfast for failing to show the documents within 7 days . any advice on wat i should do?

 

[pablo]

tell them you did and offer to produce the docs

 

[six_impressive_hours]

Blame the post office..... lol!

Wouldn't worry unduely about it. Just do what Pablo said above and take your insurance & MOT to your nearest police station, tell them your story & see what they say. What more can you do?

jamesy

 

[pablo]

ask for a receipt this time tho

 

[six_impressive_hours]

ask for a receipt this time tho

Good point!!

 

[aaron_m]

surely you got a carbon copy of the sheet that is filled out when you produce your documents at the time?

 

[rosie]

yeah are u not meant to get a copy of this at the time?
so police man has made a f*ck up!

 

[Crimson Viper]

is it not legal requirment that you have your insurance and tax details displayed?
and relevant docs in the car.

 

[hornet250]

if you can remember the date you went they will be able to hunt a copy of the form out,happened to me when i had 2 cops at my door cause i apparently had no bike licence(2 years after i produced the documents)

 

[VEN©M]

is it not legal requirment that you have your insurance and tax details displayed?
and relevant docs in the car.

tax - yes, insurance - no and this is an irrelevancy in this situation.

 

[Graham2]

how do you display your insurance details anyway? stick the cover note to your windscreen?

 

[tyroneblade]

i went to the police there and was told that they had no record that i produced the documents. however, the policeman who stopped me was meant 2 send me out a copy of his statement which he didnt do, so its looks bad on his part. my solicitor said that hes gona try his best to get the police to drop it. he called them stupid and said it was a waste of time when they should be out solvin real crime lol. jus want the whole thing sorted!

 

[Terry]

True - they are meant to fill out a form and pass it onto the investigating officer - but you as Joe Public aren't responsible for telling them to fill in this form. If you attended the police station and showed them to whoever was in the enquiry office and they told you it's all in order etc then it's not your responsility beyond that.

The only problem i can see you facing is proving you went to the office - so date and time would be handy but i doubt you can supply anything beyond that. If that goes to court and you can prove all documents where in order at that time - then there'd be no reason why you wouldn't produce so the judge will probably laugh at them to be honest and give either a very measley fine or just dismiss it.

 

[tyroneblade]

i think i know the time and date. but the policeman who i handed my documents to didnt record it (which he was meant to do i think). i asked the officer today could he not check the cameras but they aren't able to do it. jus outta curiousity, does anyone carry their insurance documents with them in the car? i'd be aftraid of either losing them r having the car stole with the documents inside

 

[Terry]

Nope - no-one really carries them aside from a minority - carrying a log book / mot / insurance is just asking for trouble it it's stolen, but Police know this is an easy way to inconvenience you etc which is usually why they ask some people to produce.

If no form was filled in then they won't have any record - but if i where you i'd put it to them to prove that you didn't produce and not the other way about - and that their incompetence in dealing with you when you did produce is no grounds for action against you

 

[Porter]

id go to court with this one and show how stupid the police have been,
the judge will laugh at them,

say to check the cameras in court to prove u went in!!, they will look like right fools,

then pleed all the stress has got to you and look all distressed, lol

 

[CapMan]

Sorry but most of the advice given here is WRONG, when you bring the blue producer in and show your documents, the police will STAMP the blue slip with a DATE confirming that you have shown the required documents or to say you have been granted an extension to the 7 days allowed. If this hasn't been done and it hasn't been recorded that you attended the police station with your documents then thats TWO occasions that you are telling the court that the police are lying. Might get away with it once but not twice, sorry. Theres no real defence in this case that i can see, as far as everyone is concerned, you didn't produce your documents. Whether you did, is irrelevant.

Wouldn't worry too much about it anyway, if you have the proper documents then you'll just get done with 'Failing to produce' and shouldn't ever be more than about £100 fine.

 

[tyroneblade]

wat i dont understand is why did the police not stamp that wee bit of paper that i brought in??

 

[CapMan]

thats only something the police officer (if it was even a police officer, i thought most PSNI stations have full time civilian employees at their reception desks now) can answer, but like i said if its not stamped or recorded that you have produced your documents then its hard luck, you will get summonsed and prosecuted whether your fault or not. Also remember, courts take a dim view of anyone claiming the police are lying or haven't done their job properly, i've tried and failed on many occasions.

 

[Terry]

My encounter with producing is also when i got points - and the police filled out an A4 sized page detailing what i brought in and then passed that onto the investigating officer. The producer was part of the fixed penalty im pretty sure so maybe slightly different.

Although i've also been down with other people "producing" and they reach for the same document to detail what has been received / viewed.

Although this is all much of a muchness - best to leave it with your solicitor - if you go to court just tell the truth and worst case scenario you get a fine as the man says. i.e. don't call anyone incompetent or a liar etc

 

[CapMan]

what pisses me off is the fact that its not even the PSNI anymore who man the enquiry offices when producing documents (or in fact anything), its civilian staff who care even less than a PSNI officer does. at least with a PSNI officer you can ask that they make a note of anything in their notebooks which you can sign if you wish and they can't alter it, and so acts in your interest if there is any discrepency later.

(I should become a solicitor. )

 

[Terry]

yes - for this indeed is called contemperaneous notes which you can actually do yourself and you are allowed to refer back to and read from them in court, as long as they are signed / dated / timed.

Capman, g4ost and co solicitors - acting in the interests of everyone except pikeys

 

[CapMan]

Capman, g4ost and co solicitors - acting in the interests of everyone except pikeys

It is worth knowing things like this though because it really can say you a lot of time, money and trouble.

Another handy hint from the experience of CapMan is that should you ever be arrested for driving whilst unfit through drink or drugs, you have a right to opt for a blood test and have the doctor (when he/she eventually arrives) to provide you with a blood test to take away for independent testing which is perfectly admissable in court, and although not condoning it, a possible way of escaping prosecution.

 

[tyroneblade]

thanks fellas for all the help jus have to wait now and see what the solicitor tells me after he contacts the police!

 

[big cyril]

It is worth knowing things like this though because it really can say you a lot of time, money and trouble.

Another handy hint from the experience of CapMan is that should you ever be arrested for driving whilst unfit through drink or drugs, you have a right to opt for a blood test and have the doctor (when he/she eventually arrives) to provide you with a blood test to take away for independent testing which is perfectly admissable in court, and although not condoning it, a possible way of escaping prosecution.

Surely the only evidence of alcohol intoxication accepted by a court would be a blood alcohol level?