New Electric Vehicle registrations in NI still pathetic

[Apis]

The uptake might be "pathetic" but it's worth bearing in mind we have a lower average salary than other parts of the UK, our electric prices are higher and we have a more rural population where EV doesn't suit people just so well if they are worried about range.

 

[Mel_45]

A lot of people and a lot of journeys don't even need cars.

If there was better, safer, infrastructure, e-bikes would make an awful lot more sense for a lot of journeys currently made by car.

I'm originally from the country where I was miles form anything so had to get the car everywhere.

When I moved in with the missus in the city, it was down to a one car household, and I get the bus / walk wherever I need to go most of the time.

Missus is a city girl and is obsessed with taking the car everywhere. Even literally 0.25 of a mile to her mums. It definitely takes longer for her to strap the kid in drive round park and unload than it does to walk but can't see it.

 

[Cooper]

The uptake might be "pathetic" but it's worth bearing in mind we have a lower average salary than other parts of the UK, our electric prices are higher and we have a more rural population where EV doesn't suit people just so well if they are worried about range.

You could go anywhere and back from anywhere in NI with ease on a single charge in most EVs in NI. With an average commute in NI of 8 miles it suits us quite well indeed. Although we sure we love apathy here!

 

[svensktoppen]

Needs too much of a mindset shift to radically alter things. But this would be more than adequate for a lot of homes doing school runs.

Problem is your face is at exhaust level and you're competing for road space with Range Rovers and XC90s being driven by blind morons with no spatial awareness.

Still, say every household had one of these and a PHEV/hybrid for long journeys and commuting, and we pedestrianized all the town/city centres. Would make some difference.

View attachment 265348

View attachment 265347

That's Cambridge you describe right there, lol Between those ruddy things, iPaces and XC90 PHEV (no Range Rovers in Cambridge, you'd be up against a wall and stoned!), and a million people on bikes who haven't been on a bike since they were five and still approach biking like they were five, etc. Well... it's just not worth the bother even trying to get in there, lol. Only ventured into city centre once in the five+ years I've been going there.

Just head for the shopping centres out on the periphery, easy to get to and the same shops.

Or Amazon, lol.

And I'm on the bike most of the time, lol Forget a car, electric or not.

In fairness haven't been to Belfast City centre either for probably 10+ years, it's hopeless too. Just head for Forestside or Sprucefield instead.

The uptake might be "pathetic" but it's worth bearing in mind we have a lower average salary than other parts of the UK, our electric prices are higher and we have a more rural population where EV doesn't suit people just so well if they are worried about range.

I think electric could be great for most commutes. And city pollution is a huge problem too.

A long way to go though despite all the hyped up hype.

UK wide it's still only 1-2%. It will pick up a bit the next year or two with more choice and more incentives. But a long way to go.

They're simply too expensive still, long lead times to boot, aimed squarely at the well off where money and time is no object. Hence sold on style, pointless performance numbers nobody will ever actually use because it kills the batteries, and more or less pointless "tech".

Then crap infra on top.

Most people can't charge at home (on-street parking, flats, etc.).

Most people can't charge at work (no or not enough dedicated spaces for employees).

These things have always been the problem with electric. It's never been about technology or whether they might be nice to drive.

For most people they're simply too expensive, and too impractical, despite all the hype.

 

[saxo_man]

They're simply too expensive still, long lead times to boot, aimed squarely at the well off where money and time is no object. Hence sold on style, pointless performance numbers nobody will ever actually use because it kills the batteries, and more or less pointless "tech".

You've pretty much summed up the BMW i3

 

[mike150]

The problem is that if you want a cheap to run car your far better buying an old diesel. At the moment you'll only buy an EV if you buy new cars anyway or you want to do

You've pretty much summed up the BMW i3

Did I mention above I almost bought a new i3 a few weeks ago?

 

[big cyril]

Seriously thinking about an electric car, but will probably lease (for the first time ever) because of worries about the value dropping like a stone when the latest version in two years time has twice the range as the battery tech develops.

 

[stevieturbo]

You could go anywhere and back from anywhere in NI with ease on a single charge in most EVs in NI. With an average commute in NI of 8 miles it suits us quite well indeed. Although we sure we love apathy here!

With the amount of culchies who travel to Belfast daily to work...that average figure of 8 miles seems impossible to believe. And the work commute is only one aspect....people do use cars for much more.
Unless it's one car for work, another for other journeys.

Seriously thinking about an electric car, but will probably lease (for the first time ever) because of worries about the value dropping like a stone when the latest version in two years time has twice the range as the battery tech develops.

Values will drop like a stone anyway, for reasons already mentioned. But I really doubt batteries will develop that much in the next decade...or even before this fictional ban comes into force. There havent really been any breakthroughs in the last 10-15 years either ?

 

[gary1365]

I looked at a zoe 2 summers ago. I really did want to like it but £200 a month to rent batteries was a sickener. It was also too small and the real life range was too short. I never even bothered rest driving it. I would love a wee electric car as a second car as I do some short trips but the wife doesn't drive so I've no need for a second car.

I want to drive an ev but I'm scared I'll love it and end up pining for 1.

 

[svensktoppen]

Seriously thinking about an electric car, but will probably lease (for the first time ever) because of worries about the value dropping like a stone when the latest version in two years time has twice the range as the battery tech develops.

Renting is really the only sensible way with electric.

Built-in obsolescence as you mention, plus the batteries will deteriorate over time and it simply won't be worth fixing them compared to switching to the next shiny thing in two years time.

Ignoring exceptions and outliers like the Taycan or an electric Rolls and such, they're all but identical underneath.

We need to think of them as commodities, like a phone. Pick your monthly budget, pick your style and brand, get a full service rental with an upgrade option in two years or whatever, and go.

The vast majority of Teslas are bought online without even looking at the cars, never mind test drives. Entirely 100% on image and style.

It will be the same with the rest arriving this year.

 

[stevieturbo]

Given the weather recently...and the number of retards who deliberately drive into floods wrecking their cars, just wondered about how an electric car might handle that.

Seems they may be better suited ?

Is a battery electric vehicle safe in a flood?

In the event of a flood, is it any more dangerous for an electric vehicle to be floating down the main street than an ICE car?

thedriven.io

Electric cars may be safer to drive in deep water

FLOODS are common during winter months and motorists must take extra precaution near deep water.

www.express.co.uk

 

[-Pete-]

there's also the issue of no serviceable parts to a battery bank and with the battery bank hard wired into the car structure, you cant exactly get at it if you get a dud cell, something which happens every rechargeable battery eventually to a certain degree, and then your performance takes a nose dive.
beyond tyres and suspension components, you aren't really going to know if the electric motors/battery has had a hard life or not or the remaining life span anywhere near as easily as a normal engine.
the chasm of convincing the average joe on a very limited income to move from something like a nissan micra 1 litre with possibly some of the cheapest parts and running costs available as well as brilliant economy to move to a big monthly bill and future loss, is huge.
It's easy for anyone with a good income or plenty of spare cash to bleat on about EV's being the best thing since sliced bread but its wishful thinking right now and naive as its all going to be negated by the secondary issue of putting a whole other secondary process in place to safely dispose of all the old EV's once they get superceeded by the next crop, and all the cool hip kids jump onto the latest model.
all those old models aren't going to be magically snapped up second hand, especially when taking into account the big hurdle of genuinely knowing if the most expensive parts (motors and battery bank) are fooked or have plenty of life left in them, and you don't have even close to the same knowledge base out there with mechanics etc to advise.
Maybe ten more years before its becomes a realistic option for joe public, and not just the upper middle classes.

a good rental scheme as @svensktoppen suggested above would be a potential way of bringing it in quicker.

 

[Cooper]

The new car market has us consumers lined up for rental. With new car values through the roof, no one actually pays “list” or even thinks about the total cost. 24 months HP job jobbed. Made for these expensive, disposable electric yokes.

To pick up on a few points... Due to demand, residuals are incredibly high for BEVs at the moment.

Buying a Tesla Model 3 and running it for 8 years as a total cost of ownership perspective would not be the worlds worst financial decision. Model Ss are showing around 90% range after 100k. That’s all fine and dandy if you have £40k of wedge to put down in the first place! Micra man is stuffed.

As is Corsa man. £30k for one! No bangernomics to be had yet that’s for sure.

Given the weather recently...and the number of retards who deliberately drive into floods wrecking their cars, just wondered about how an electric car might handle that.

Seems they may be better suited ?

Immediately thought of this.

 

[impact]

Catch 22 for car manufacturers, can't make EV cheap enough if you aren't making them at volume, can't make them at volume until there's mass market adoption and infrastructure to support it.
Most will make a loss on every EV they sell and will be taking a big hit in short term of next 5 years or so to position themselves in the game in the long term. Hence most EVs so far are in upper market with better margins and with halo models to generate a aspiration factor for their upcoming lower models.

Added to the cost for manufacturers is a complete change of platform, manufacturing and supply chains from their tradition ICE models that no matter how they are marketed as "new" are really just iterations of previous models with many shared components.
As an idea of cost the company I work for has now got the business for supplying an EV motor casing to a big brand - to make that one part will take circa £25M of kit and a sizable team of people in the supply chain working on just that one part for 2 years before the start of production. That's before it drops into their factory for further manufacturing and assembly.

 

[Apis]

there's also the issue of no serviceable parts to a battery bank and with the battery bank hard wired into the car structure, you cant exactly get at it if you get a dud cell, something which happens every rechargeable battery eventually to a certain degree, and then your performance takes a nose dive.
beyond tyres and suspension components, you aren't really going to know if the electric motors/battery has had a hard life or not or the remaining life span anywhere near as easily as a normal engine.

I'm not sure about that.
On my hybrid I can check for the charge and temperature of each cell, the battery state of health, state of charge, charge history, etc. Some of it on via the car and some of it on a free phone app, recording live and saving history. There's more uncertainty with its engine. The mileage doesn't really tell, unless you know how much the engine has been running, especially from cold.
On an ICE car, it's mileage, service history and a visual check, oil, water, etc. Maybe some other data you can collect from sensors, oil pressure, compression, etc. but I reckon it could be far easier and faster to check the health of a EV/PHEV.

 

[svensktoppen]

I can just hear the East Belfast accent holding up their phone going "look, rarely used this battery here, only one careful owner, never been raked, perfect condition", etc. And you'd go "right, that's grand then"?

A hybrid is a very different thing though. Second hand you effectively buy a combustion engine and the hybrid bits are just a bonus. The car still works fine without them. The batteries are smaller, not an integral part of the chassis, etc.

Yes, you can get data out of the ECU if you know how to. And if you know how to read it. And if you can tell if someone has messed with that data. Etc.

In reality the only way to buy a second hand BEV would be with a strong warranty and some sort of independent health check. Which in practice means buying from big dealers.

It just won't be worth it compared to just taking out another rental for a new one. Not for the buyer, and certainly not for the dealer.

 

[Apis]

A hybrid is a very different thing though. Second hand you effectively buy a combustion engine and the hybrid bits are just a bonus. The car still works fine without them. The batteries are smaller, not an integral part of the chassis, etc.

I think you'll find the hybrid bits can be a hell of a bonus and the car works badly without them.
On mine when there's no electric I'm about 80bhp down, which is very noticeable.

 

[Mel_45]

The new car market has us consumers lined up for rental. With new car values through the roof, no one actually pays “list” or even thinks about the total cost. 24 months HP job jobbed. Made for these expensive, disposable electric yokes.

Surely this makes them actually less eco friendly than an ICE?

The only real benefit would be air quality in city centres?

 

[svensktoppen]

I imagine an electric car would be fairly easy to recycle. Just metal, plastic, motors and batteries. Motors can probably be refurbished and reused, etc. Only question might be batteries, I don't know how recyclable they are. But all existing battery types are already recycled so can't see why BEV batteries wouldn't be.

Either way, air quality alone especially in cities and along main roads would be a huge benefit.

 

[impact]

Already a spawning industry for reusing EV batteries - once no longer fit for a car they are still good enough for another 10 years as a power bank for domestic or commercial use. Big uptake already in places like Japan, charging of solar or off peak times.

Heres a UK based one you can buy now.

Smart Renewable Energy Storage | Powervault

Save money, energy and the planet with Powervault's energy storage systems. Get a free residential or commercial quote today.

www.powervault.co.uk

China, EU and US all now either have or are proposing regulations that the car companies must make their batteries recyclable and not for landfill one done.
Even after they are completely spent they are still recyclable, just a case of whether its more economical than mining more stuff.

 

[Cooper]

Surely this makes them actually less eco friendly than an ICE?

The only real benefit would be air quality in city centres?

I was being slightly pedantic but you have a point. I think the examples banded about are that you would need to run your current generation BEV for nearly a decade before the total CO2 output is less than a small ICE.

Then again, we might also assume car purchases are made on such pragmatic and selfless grounds. Which of course, they are not!

 

[-Pete-]

certainly no 'bangernomics' just yet but there's still a lot of people out there who want to own a car outright, just like property ownership, not everyone wants to rent... or hp a car.
Plenty could afford it too but just prefer to own outright. Not everyone wants to keep up with the jones'

you're not cool unless you have the latest audi/ev and a full vegan crossfitter in your new build property

 

[stevieturbo]

I imagine an electric car would be fairly easy to recycle. Just metal, plastic, motors and batteries. Motors can probably be refurbished and reused, etc. Only question might be batteries, I don't know how recyclable they are. But all existing battery types are already recycled so can't see why BEV batteries wouldn't be.

Either way, air quality alone especially in cities and along main roads would be a huge benefit.

I wouldnt say easy to recycle.....And dismantling say 10 year old cars because the batteries are stuffed and building new cars...doesnt seem to be good environmental sense. And it'd probably be very expensive to do too.

And I really doubt all existing battery types are recycled. Hell, even in work...we had a struggle to find a waste company to take a load of old used batteries off us !

No doubt some aspects of most batteries can be recycled....probably at very high cost. Batteries are a waste time bomb for the future unless there is some massive breakthrough.

But again....whilst it can improve air quality in cities.....it's still just pushing any waste elsewhere. And eventually that will become a problem.

 

[stevieturbo]

Although it is odd all these assholes are targeting cars....

I wonder how many of the idiot protesters etc go home to lovely warm houses, probably at tropical temperatures inside, and in summer with aircon blasting.

Pollution from Your Heating - Pollution Issues

All heating causes pollution, but how can we make sure that it is kept at a minimum? Read on to find out more.

www.pollutionissues.co.uk

Central heating boilers 'put climate change goals at risk'

The UK will not meet its climate change targets without a revolution in home heating, a think tank says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Some probably burn more fuel in a year than a lot of motorists.

Houses are easy to electrify, houses would be easy to change to all electric heating etc.

 

[svensktoppen]

Obviously doing something about local transport isn't going to fix problems from central heating... Or anything else... Honestly, did you really expect it to?

Other initiatives deal with heating - moving people off oil and onto renewables, encouraging insulation, etc.

What's your point again?