Is the use of red diesel in a private car a criminal or civil offence?

[mayweather]

We all know the fines for using red diesel but there seems to be a bit of a debate as to either it is a criminal or civil offence.

If you were caught and fined, would this show up on say an access NI check for work?

Perhaps @avo5021 may be able to fill us in?

 

[stevieturbo]

Pretty sure a lot of tax related stuff is more civil than criminal.

You would need to be caught and actually prosecuted, or fail to pay any fines before it would become criminal.

 

[Graham]

You didn't happen to get caught red handed pumping direct into a navy transit in ards on Friday by customs?

 

[mayweather]

You didn't happen to get caught red handed pumping direct into a navy transit in ards on Friday by customs?

Definatley not, the transit gets run on home heating oil instead.....

 

[avo5021]

It's an Evasion of Duty, it would be Criminal.

 

[Odhran]

So it would show on AccessNI, CRB etc?

 

[PhilM]

It's an Evasion of Duty, it would be Criminal.

can i ask without really wanting to get into the any anyti establishment nonsense,

is it legal or run other alternative fuels (other than red) veg oil/home heating oil etc?

Phil

 

[AC]

AccessNI filters:

• a conviction if you don’t have any other conviction on your record
• a conviction for an offence after eleven years for an adult
• a conviction for an offence after five and a half years for someone under 18 when convicted
• a caution after six years for adults
• a caution (including restorative) and diversionary youth conferences after two years for someone under 18 when cautioned
• informed warnings after one year

 

[Artoir]

There's a limit on how much veg oil you can run before paying tax, or there used to be.

 

[stevieturbo]

It's an Evasion of Duty, it would be Criminal.

Yes, but most are dealt with via spot fine and no prosecution ? So surely there will be no criminal record ?

 

[Coog]

There's a limit on how much veg oil you can run before paying tax, or there used to be.

1000 litres a year or something and I don't know how they can find out how close you are to your limit. Downside is that it hardly saves any money and its a pain in the back side to buy/fill.

Red diesel use would go down as tax evasion. I'd lose my job if caught.

 

[Alan_B]

Red diesel use would go down as tax evasion. I'd lose my job if caught.

How would they find out? Although you work in some sort of anti fraud thing don't you?

 

[Coog]

I'm assuming you get a criminal record for tax evasion. That automatically gets us accountants bucked out of our respective institutes!

 

[Boabybooster]

I'm assuming you get a criminal record for tax evasion. That automatically gets us accountants bucked out of our respective institutes!

An accountant can get sacked for tax evasion? Surprised there's any left working.

 

[Coog]

Lol there's a difference between exploiting legal loopholes and flat out evasion

 

[Eager]

So what is the standing ?

Surely some on here have been caught ? Was under the impression just pay the fine and it goes away ?

 

[Nicky]

can i ask without really wanting to get into the any anyti establishment nonsense,

is it legal or run other alternative fuels (other than red) veg oil/home heating oil etc?

Phil

You can run on veg oil and waste veg oil. You are limited to 2,500 litres per annum before having to declare it, but you may be asked to provide fuel receipts to show additional mileage to HMRC if you go over the miles that 2,500 litres of veg oil will cover in that vehicle, which they will check against MOT's.

For talk sake, if your car does 5,000 miles in the 2,500 litres of WVO, and you have covered 10,000 since its last MOT when the kola he was last recorded, you will have to provide proof of paying tax on the fuel for the additional 5,000 miles...

 

[PhilM]

You can run on veg oil and waste veg oil. You are limited to 2,500 litres per annum before having to declare it, but you may be asked to provide fuel receipts to show additional mileage to HMRC if you go over the miles that 2,500 litres of veg oil will cover in that vehicle, which they will check against MOT's.

For talk sake, if your car does 5,000 miles in the 2,500 litres of WVO, and you have covered 10,000 since its last MOT when the kola he was last recorded, you will have to provide proof of paying tax on the fuel for the additional 5,000 miles...

got ya.

Cheers

Phil

 

[Antoin]

@PhilM I worked out that I could do roughly 23k miles per year in a Peugeot 306 dt before you went over the 2500litres threshold.
2500/60litre tank = 42 tanks give or take.
42 tanks @ 550miles per tank = 23k roughly
Unless you are doing big miles you shouldn't go over the threshold where you would have to pay excise duty.
If your getting the veggy oil 40p cheaper than diesel that's £1,000 your saving!

Also I think you can run your car on anything you want (within reason - no waste engine oil) as long as you pay the excise on it.

 

[mayweather]

AccessNI filters:

• a conviction if you don’t have any other conviction on your record
• a conviction for an offence after eleven years for an adult
• a conviction for an offence after five and a half years for someone under 18 when convicted
• a caution after six years for adults
• a caution (including restorative) and diversionary youth conferences after two years for someone under 18 when cautioned
• informed warnings after one year

Thats only a basic check, an enhanced check shows everything!

I'm assuming you get a criminal record for tax evasion. That automatically gets us accountants bucked out of our respective institutes!

I am not sure if thats the case or not, as I have just read on an HMRC website that running red diesel in a private vechicle is a "civil offence".


"civil penalties under section 9 of the Finance Act 1994 or an Excise wrongdoing penalty under Schedule 41 of Finance Act 2008

your vehicle (or engine) being seized and forfeited

if your conduct involves dishonesty, a penalty of up to 100% of the duty evaded may be imposed

In the more serious cases involving dishonesty, criminal action may be taken, and the offender can be fined an unlimited amount or imprisoned for up to seven years, or both."

Section 5 https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...icles/excise-notice-75-fuel-for-road-vehicles

 

[Coog]

Lol I'm not sure either but wouldn't want to put it to the test

 

[PhilM]

@PhilM I worked out that I could do roughly 23k miles per year in a Peugeot 306 dt before you went over the 2500litres threshold.
2500/60litre tank = 42 tanks give or take.
42 tanks @ 550miles per tank = 23k roughly
Unless you are doing big miles you shouldn't go over the threshold where you would have to pay excise duty.
If your getting the veggy oil 40p cheaper than diesel that's £1,000 your saving!

Also I think you can run your car on anything you want (within reason - no waste engine oil) as long as you pay the excise on it.

So just to triple check, is there nothing even slightly questionable about the vege oil option?

It sounds legit

Phil

 

[gpaevo]

The enhanced Access NI shows everything for ever, whether it was a juvenile or adult offence. No where to hide from that one.

 

[Jethro]

Just buy a proper petrol car and you won't have to worry about the devils fuel

 

[mayweather]

For what its worth I don't use red, but I am interested to find out the implications of using it as I have seen vets, doctors etc filling up and I would have thought this could have serious implications for their career.