law on loud exhaust systems ???
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natogreen16v
RMS Regular
what proof do you want and i'll see if i can get it?
stevieturbo
RMS Regular
Wouldnt surprise me....them not turning up gets them off with their cock ups, no questions asked.
If you fail to turn up in court...you get found guilty in your absence.
Double standards ??
Its whatever the cop says it is, based on his/her own opinion. Virtually impossible to fight in court, hence nobody has ever won or wasted thousands of pounds trying to fight it.
''and for who-ever said about the 10 seconds in the morning - mustn't be that loud. I've sat and listened to my neighbours car slow down for the next village, about 4 miles away, and then accelerate out of the 30 zone at the far end. Thats a good few minutes''
i think that clio is beside us too, it woke me up at 2am one sunday morn as well, canning down our street, f'in ragin, couldnt get back to sleep for ages.
i think that clio is beside us too, it woke me up at 2am one sunday morn as well, canning down our street, f'in ragin, couldnt get back to sleep for ages.
rosssei
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just interested thats all! would be interesting to see just if there is any actual basis for a officers decision on the matter - rather than it being a grey area and down to officer preferance!
so if you have a standard exhaust and its noisy then can you be given the same punishment? or is it just aftermarket exhausts?
dont get me wrong here - not havign a go - am genuinely interested thats all! i plan to keep my exhaust standard as the reason i sold the 182 partly was due to the noise and trying to drive it every day!
so if you have a standard exhaust and its noisy then can you be given the same punishment? or is it just aftermarket exhausts?
dont get me wrong here - not havign a go - am genuinely interested thats all! i plan to keep my exhaust standard as the reason i sold the 182 partly was due to the noise and trying to drive it every day!
I think this debate has got slightly out of hand.
Ask yourself 'Why do people get aftermarket exhausts?'
For some its with the intention of making the car louder, for others its purely for looks only.
I personally dont like loud exhaust systems. Theres a wide variation of exhaust systems on the market that range from quiet to ridiculously loud.
If you think its loud then you have to expect another human being to think its loud too. Its not 'discrimination' if you recieve a fixed penalty as a result of the level of noise which the police officer has deemed to be excessive in that case.
There are lots of complaints of noise in residential areas and without scientific supporting evidence unfortunately all the officer has is his ears to decide on the level of noise, it is then up to him or her whether they deem this to be worthy of issuing a ticket. Thats what this debate seems to be centred on, I dont think anyones arguing that excessive noise shouldnt be dealt with by police, its more what the police use to support the term excessive.
We've all been in a situation where we've heard cars driving at night that have been quite loud, and as some have mentioned even wake people out of their sleep, therefore the advice for anyone with an aftermarket exhaust is if you think its loud then it probably is and hence you have to expect someone else will too.
Ask yourself 'Why do people get aftermarket exhausts?'
For some its with the intention of making the car louder, for others its purely for looks only.
I personally dont like loud exhaust systems. Theres a wide variation of exhaust systems on the market that range from quiet to ridiculously loud.
If you think its loud then you have to expect another human being to think its loud too. Its not 'discrimination' if you recieve a fixed penalty as a result of the level of noise which the police officer has deemed to be excessive in that case.
There are lots of complaints of noise in residential areas and without scientific supporting evidence unfortunately all the officer has is his ears to decide on the level of noise, it is then up to him or her whether they deem this to be worthy of issuing a ticket. Thats what this debate seems to be centred on, I dont think anyones arguing that excessive noise shouldnt be dealt with by police, its more what the police use to support the term excessive.
We've all been in a situation where we've heard cars driving at night that have been quite loud, and as some have mentioned even wake people out of their sleep, therefore the advice for anyone with an aftermarket exhaust is if you think its loud then it probably is and hence you have to expect someone else will too.
rosssei
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^^ exactly Johnski - thats why i am wondering where rybo got his "if its aftermarket and louder at all its illegal" speel from.
i hate loud exhausts - especially when they are being used by chavs ot race up and down streets at night.
so basically to sum up the loudness is up to the officer on the day? and it goes by their judgement?
baxter -dont think anyone is gurning TBH - people are just curious to see exactly what the law is? are we talking about "excessive noise" or "louder than standard"? thats the question?
i hate loud exhausts - especially when they are being used by chavs ot race up and down streets at night.
so basically to sum up the loudness is up to the officer on the day? and it goes by their judgement?
baxter -dont think anyone is gurning TBH - people are just curious to see exactly what the law is? are we talking about "excessive noise" or "louder than standard"? thats the question?
the only reason why I put any exhuast system on any car that iv had is for performance reasons and styling...usually a magnex as its one of the ones that doesnt rip the ass outa it and you cant even hear if you cruise along
Rossei the general offence wording is excessive noise. It is up to the officers discretion on whether they deem this noise to be excessive or not.
You could probably argue all day long that 'my car isnt any louder than a tvr' but in most cases I think we all know (whether we admit it or not) if the exhaust is particularly loud.
The general rule of thumb would be if you think the exhaust is loud then you can only expect a police officer will and you may recieve a fixed penalty for it. I hope this clears things up. As I say people are complaining more and more about noise pollution be it road traffic related or not. If we reported the matter to the police who did nothing about it then we'd have another thread slagging the police for that too.
I hope the mods clear up a lot of the bitching here as it would be nicer to see threads where people actually have a constructed debate on these issues rather than them turning into slagging matches or police bashing threads.
You could probably argue all day long that 'my car isnt any louder than a tvr' but in most cases I think we all know (whether we admit it or not) if the exhaust is particularly loud.
The general rule of thumb would be if you think the exhaust is loud then you can only expect a police officer will and you may recieve a fixed penalty for it. I hope this clears things up. As I say people are complaining more and more about noise pollution be it road traffic related or not. If we reported the matter to the police who did nothing about it then we'd have another thread slagging the police for that too.
I hope the mods clear up a lot of the bitching here as it would be nicer to see threads where people actually have a constructed debate on these issues rather than them turning into slagging matches or police bashing threads.
marcdh
RMS Regular
Lets relate issues of this to speeding. The police and government have spent literally millions in perfecting devices to scientifically prove people are speeding. Why? Because the opinion of one police officer is subjective. Should a case go to court it is always preferential to have 99% undisputable scientific evidence. To imply that one officer's opinion is infact accurate enough to fine someone is egotistically ignorant. This will lead to court cases, which with a competent defence lawyer will outcome in harassment. The issue here is that most of those with loud aftermarket systems do not have the money to waste in courts. Meanwhile the Ferrari owners who could take it to court are ripping by at 120dB...
I have had personal experience with noise complaints. I often do Protools recordings in my home studio with my band and others. I have had a warning letter from the council about noise pollution. I can tell you right now the referred legislation gives a dB limit at a given range. I have a dB meter that I have used to test max output and am well within limits, no further action has been taken. However I did improve the soundproofing to be courteous to the neighbours. This will be an obvious and easy parallel to make regarding 'excessive' exhaust noise.
If I am fined for my moderately louder, performance increasing catback that I paid for with my taxed income, I will fight for my right to be still considerably less dB than a TVR.
I have had personal experience with noise complaints. I often do Protools recordings in my home studio with my band and others. I have had a warning letter from the council about noise pollution. I can tell you right now the referred legislation gives a dB limit at a given range. I have a dB meter that I have used to test max output and am well within limits, no further action has been taken. However I did improve the soundproofing to be courteous to the neighbours. This will be an obvious and easy parallel to make regarding 'excessive' exhaust noise.
If I am fined for my moderately louder, performance increasing catback that I paid for with my taxed income, I will fight for my right to be still considerably less dB than a TVR.
stevieturbo
RMS Regular
"Excessive speed" gives the police a free reign to do someone without any factual evidence of speeding.
rosssei
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Thanks Johnski - answers my question perfectly so thanks
I also agree - ryan there is little need to get on like a keyboard warrior!
So one police officers observations/opinion isnt sufficient for a successful prosecution? I suggest you open your eyes and realise your in the real world. By your reasoning if a police officer see's someone committing a burglary does there have to be another police officer there to prove him/her right?
Also people who spend upwards of 250quid on an aftermarket exhaust cant afford a 30 pound fixed penalty notice? well if thats the case then dont get a loud aftermarket exhaust then. Rybo and many others on the site try to help people with advice and answering general queries but it seems rms is leaning towards the jim standard of thread these days and does nothing but critisize the police....and thats putting it quite nicely.
Your issue is totally different from road traffic legislation and theres no comparison from your scenerio.
No probs rossei, as i said most people on here try to help. Its just frustrating to see these threads turning into ''its the peelers fault'' day in day out.
Thread now tidied up. Please keep the bull$hit out of this thread, this is a useful and interesting legal topic which a lot of us can relate to.
Good point made above Coog - there are hundreds of active members on RMS, just because a small handful make constant anti-police remarks, don't assume everyone is like that.
To be fair, a crime like a burglary can't be compared to something which is measured at a quantifiable level - like window tints, speed, or indeed, exhaust noise. Breaking in is breaking in. Murder is murder. There aren't varying degrees. On the other hand, exhaust noise, etc is is highly subjective. If it's ridiculously loud then fair enough, any member of the PSNI can immediately say that's illegal - but for borderline cases I think some type of measuring device has to be used for fairness.
Gaz
Good point made above Coog - there are hundreds of active members on RMS, just because a small handful make constant anti-police remarks, don't assume everyone is like that.
To be fair, a crime like a burglary can't be compared to something which is measured at a quantifiable level - like window tints, speed, or indeed, exhaust noise. Breaking in is breaking in. Murder is murder. There aren't varying degrees. On the other hand, exhaust noise, etc is is highly subjective. If it's ridiculously loud then fair enough, any member of the PSNI can immediately say that's illegal - but for borderline cases I think some type of measuring device has to be used for fairness.
Gaz
I wasnt making the comparison gaz. I was trying to work out his logic. Until the law is changed by the government then a police officers evidence will have to remain sufficient to issue fixed penalty notices. If there was a maximum dB level then the use of devices would certainly be expected. Like every other ticketable road traffic offence if you feel that the ticket is unjust then you have the right to contest it. I think it should be left at that.
marcdh
RMS Regular
Johnski, with all due respect I don't think you have perceived my thoughts correctly. It is my profession to work on preparing evidence to ensure conclusive cases, so please refrain from patronising. Perhaps I should have refered to window tinting as a comparison, as you too should have in regards to your burglary reference.
My logic is simple, some exhausts are too loud, they should be measured accurately and proven too loud. Gaz you've conveyed my point of view exactly.
Regarding people who can afford catbacks shouldn't have a problem with £30 fines- they shouldn't be fined at all if they're at a sensible level, that's a terrible mentallity. All I've said is I want that level to be a number, not an opinion, once that happens I'm all for it!
My logic is simple, some exhausts are too loud, they should be measured accurately and proven too loud. Gaz you've conveyed my point of view exactly.
Regarding people who can afford catbacks shouldn't have a problem with £30 fines- they shouldn't be fined at all if they're at a sensible level, that's a terrible mentallity. All I've said is I want that level to be a number, not an opinion, once that happens I'm all for it!
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