New rules for towing a trailer or caravan with a car from autumn 2021

[Coog]

The bit that changes is at the very bottom. 3500kg mam. So basically you’ll be able to crack on towing a trailer with a Jeep on it behind another Jeep with not a clue what you’re doing or any training whatsoever. Should go well.

 

[Chris666]

If you passed your car driving test from 1 January 1997, you’ll be allowed to tow trailers up to 3,500kg MAM when the law changes.


3500kg MAM TRAILERS

That means you will be able to tow this Ifor Williams "Eventa" horsebox which weighs 1809kg empty, with a few decent sized horses in it - providing your towing vehicle is 3.5t rated.

 

[111gsi]

If it does change here, I'd hope to be able to use it to borrow/hire heavy trailers for light jobs. At the minute I don't think I'm allowed to tow anything with a MAM over about 1.5T, as the MAM of the car is just shy of 2T. So borrowing a twin-axle Ifor Williams to lift some 8ft wardrobes from IKEA is a no-no, as the trailer is treated as if at full weight from my licence's point of view (1999 issue). Being assessed on the weight you're actually towing would be a step forward if it happens.

Agree that most of the bother at the dump is from BMW X5s towing wee Erde wheelbarrows. If my Broniss didn't have a ladder rack I'd be struggling to see it, as it's slightly narrower than the car and very hard to reverse straight.

 

[BarryPort]

The bit that changes is at the very bottom. 3500kg mam. So basically you’ll be able to crack on towing a trailer with a Jeep on it behind another Jeep with not a clue what you’re doing or any training whatsoever. Should go well.

Shouldnt really be admitting this but last year I came over a hill in Letterkenny town towing this behind my Renault Trafic van. Damp greasy road & there was road works with cars backed up as soon as I came over the blind crest. 50m between me & a stationary Nissan Juke and I could not get stopped. Foot brake hard to the floor the train weight pushed me with such inertia nothing was happening.. literally nothing. I grabbed the hand brake, helping but definitely not getting stopped in time. With 10m to go I went for the deserted foot path, front left wheel caught the kerb allowing the van to spin 90° into a Jack-knife, when it came the rest my drivers door was parallel with the Juke’s tailgate, less than a meter apart. Not an ideal result but nobody connected & more importantly nobody hurt.
The most crabbit woman in Donegal emerged from the Juke without a limp & gave me both barrels. I asked her to creep forward in the queue so I can get squared up. She wasn’t willing to cooperate. Her elderly mum then stuck her head out the window to call me an ignorant c**t in front of her grandchild. I’l take that. A-Frame of the transporter had pushed in my back bumper but that was it. Traffic cones dispersed everywhere lol.
Quite rightly she made me wait until the temporary traffic lights turned green before I could look less of d*ckhead.

Been towing for years (Did a few spells HGV lorry driving too) and that day has given me some respect for your fully laden train weight in sh*te conditions. I shouldn’t have gotten off with that one so easy.

Sorry yes back to topic this will be some craic with boys not understanding/appreciating the laws of physics.

Shouldnt really be admitting this but last year I came over a hill in Letterkenny town towing this behind my Renault Trafic van. Damp greasy road & there was road works with cars backed up as soon as I came over the blind crest. 50m between me & a stationary Nissan Juke and I could not get stopped. Foot brake hard to the floor the train weight pushed me with such inertia nothing was happening.. literally nothing. I grabbed the hand brake, helping but definitely not getting stopped in time. With 10m to go I went for the deserted foot path, front left wheel caught the kerb allowing the van to spin 90° into a Jack-knife, when it came the rest my drivers door was parallel with the Juke’s tailgate, less than a meter apart. Not an ideal result but nobody connected & more importantly nobody hurt.
The most crabbit woman in Donegal emerged from the Juke without a limp & gave me both barrels. I asked to to creep forward in the queue so I can get squared up. She wasn’t willing to cooperate. Her elderly mum then stuck her head out the window to call me an ignorant **** in front of her grandchild. I’l take that. A-Frame of the transporter had pushed in my back bumper but that was it. Traffic cones dispersed everywhere lol.
Quite rightly she made me wait until the temporary traffic lights turned green before I could look less of d*ckhead.

Been towing for years (Did a few spells HGV lorry driving too) and that day has given me some respect for your fully laden train weight in sh*te conditions. I shouldn’t have gotten off with that one so easy.

Sorry yes back to topic this will be some craic with boys not understanding/appreciating the laws of physics.

Just looking at that pic again waiting for @stevieturbo to come on telling me it was nose-heavy.

 

[Wild Thing]

The way i am reading this is substitute mam weight for max train weight. In other words tow vehicle and trailer not to exceed 3500kgs. Maybe i am wrong

 

[stevieturbo]

Just looking at that pic again waiting for @stevieturbo to come on telling me it was nose-heavy.

Doesn't look like much weight overall ? Although if braking was such an issue, were the trailer brakes not working ?

Any I've towed in recent years, you'd barely have any weight pushing you on the brakes.

Although nose weight is an odd one....everyone knows you need this for stability. But an awful lot of towbars are only rated at 50kg nose weight, which is very little, and in some cases up to 100kg on the towbar.
I'd say a lot of biggish stuff is usually loaded up a fair bit over that ?

The way i am reading this is substitute mam weight for max train weight. In other words tow vehicle and trailer not to exceed 3500kgs. Maybe i am wrong

That's what I'm picking up.

Maybe not ? Don't know.

 

[Chris666]

Nose weight isn't an odd one, a 3500KG trailer does not place anywhere near that weight onto the ball because you have an axle or indeed axles and therefore a balance point.

Noseweight ie the actual mass placed on the ball from the hitch can be measured on bathroom scales.

 

[Coog]

Probably 2 ton there. Unbelievably none of that stuff is taught in the test. Don’t remember seeing anything about weights but it’s been a long time. Excess nose weight could affect your ability to stop. Plus you need to be able to apply a certain amount of pressure to the hitch to allow the overrun brakes to activate, so if it’s nose heavy, greasy and you snatch the brakes there’s a good chance something like a wee van would just get carried along with the weight of everything.

 

[BarryPort]

Doesn't look like much weight overall ? Although if braking was such an issue, were the trailer brakes not working ?

Any I've towed in recent years, you'd barely have any weight pushing you on the brakes.

Although nose weight is an odd one....everyone knows you need this for stability. But an awful lot of towbars are only rated at 50kg nose weight, which is very little, and in some cases up to 100kg on the towbar.
I'd say a lot of biggish stuff is usually loaded up a fair bit over that ?

That's what I'm picking up.

Maybe not ? Don't know.

The transporter maintenance I can’t comment on as it was borrowed from a forum member that day & he’s going to come on to find out his trailer was involved in an accident lol

 

[BarryPort]

Probably 2 ton there. Unbelievably none of that stuff is taught in the test. Don’t remember seeing anything about weights but it’s been a long time. Excess nose weight could affect your ability to stop. Plus you need to be able to apply a certain amount of pressure to the hitch to allow the overrun brakes to activate, so if it’s nose heavy, greasy and you snatch the brakes there’s a good chance something like a wee van would just get carried along with the weight of everything.

Totally!! The CPC test was a joke, 100% was made up by clowns in the office. One question I had was to make sure you didn’t fill a cement lorry with animal feed. Absolutely FA about how to strap a load etc, the things that actually matter.

 

[Chris666]

 

[StevenMc29]

I tried to do the trailer test there earlier in the summer. Couldn't get a test for months.

In the end the caravan and car combined weight is 3490kg, creeping in under the limit. I did a caravan lesson with Ians in Newtownards which was definitely useful and I still take it handy. Have managed to reverse it into the drive a couple of times now which is mostly fluke.

I can't imagine towing anything bigger without some lessons and a test. Seems like madness. Will probably do the test at some point when waiting list dies down.

 

[suckindiesel]

It’s a bit mad, having said that I can’t remember learning a terrible lot doing the test, but I guess someone who has never towed a trailer may have found it more beneficial. Don’t remember anything about braking distances, securing loads, nose weight etc as said. Nothing to beat experience anyway.

 

[stevieturbo]

Nose weight isn't an odd one, a 3500KG trailer does not place anywhere near that weight onto the ball because you have an axle or indeed axles and therefore a balance point.

Noseweight ie the actual mass placed on the ball from the hitch can be measured on bathroom scales.

I know exactly what it is, and as said, everyone knows you need a good amount of weight on the nose for trailer stability, a lot more than 50kg in most cases.

Probably 2 ton there. Unbelievably none of that stuff is taught in the test. Don’t remember seeing anything about weights but it’s been a long time. Excess nose weight could affect your ability to stop. Plus you need to be able to apply a certain amount of pressure to the hitch to allow the overrun brakes to activate, so if it’s nose heavy, greasy and you snatch the brakes there’s a good chance something like a wee van would just get carried along with the weight of everything.

A wee van probably shouldnt be towing something too heavy.

 

[Chris666]

A vehicle with a towbar rated to 50kg on the nose will be lucky to be rated for more than 1T braked and more likely to be seen at a local dump getting badly reversed.

The stabilty argument isn't the same for that vs a big horsebox or transporter w/ rally car etc + it also depends on the ball, mine is rated for 106 yet the swan neck and detachable versions are both significantly lower.

 

[Nicky Glanza]

Traffics tow brilliantly had many tonnes on behind them , as for nose weight I always thought the more weight the better?
As for the detail on the trailer test scrapping , surely if it were to remain basically the same and that people require a test to still tow plenty defeats the whole purpose? And the thing is we can discuss it until the cows come home and it will probably never make it here with the clowns we have in charge

 

[quattro Rick]

View attachment 335035

The irony is that the straps there are probably keeping what I assume are collapsible sides that fold over

There's an artic driver who straps down a Tonka truck type toy on his flat bed as it's a bit of a laugh and the kids love it

 

[Chris666]

The irony is that the straps there are probably keeping what I assume are collapsible sides that fold over

There's an artic driver who straps down a Tonka truck type toy on his flat bed as it's a bit of a laugh and the kids love it

Could be a maintenance wagon or something, dropsides maybe side tip for filling in track ballast.. Totally guessing

 

[lennyd]

That caravan reversing is great. Now lets stick an empty 6x4 on instead of the nice long caravan and see how they get on

Some of the reversing the old school caravaners can do is unreal. Same goes with builders and some of the car transporter lads too. Guy next door to me can put his trailer down our street round a really tight corner, down his drive and round and up the side of his house with a high roof LWB sprinter with about 6 inches spare either side and all at about 30 mph in reverse. I've still no idea how he manages it and secretly want to congratulate him on his incredible man skills. Seen some other special stuff over the years that literally no-one would ever notice but me - it's a great skill to watch.

The reality of handing out B&E's these days will probably be hoards of plebs buying massive caravans to tow at 70 in the outside lane.

One of my favourite past times on a caravaning holiday is to park up, set up the awning and sit with a beer and watch people trying to park their caravans. I don't have my test but grew up on a farm so towing and reversing isn't a big deal to me but I always considered going for the test but always had better uses for the 400 quid. My wife went and got her test for towing the nags about and I'm pleased to say she can handle it the very best, better than most builders I know!

 

[stevieturbo]

Traffics tow brilliantly had many tonnes on behind them , as for nose weight I always thought the more weight the better?
As for the detail on the trailer test scrapping , surely if it were to remain basically the same and that people require a test to still tow plenty defeats the whole purpose? And the thing is we can discuss it until the cows come home and it will probably never make it here with the clowns we have in charge

"more" is a loose term. But yes the trailer does need to be nose heavy. You wouldn't add huge amounts though for various practical reasons, plus as said, almost to towbars I've seen are rated at more than 100kg nose weight, most are only 50kg even if nearly all would be loaded more than that

And most stats for a Renault Trafic list max towing weight of 2000kg.

Towing limits

Find out the towing limits of your car and calculate the 85% towing advise for caravanning.

towcar.info

 

[Coog]

Traffics tow brilliantly had many tonnes on behind them , as for nose weight I always thought the more weight the better?
As for the detail on the trailer test scrapping , surely if it were to remain basically the same and that people require a test to still tow plenty defeats the whole purpose? And the thing is we can discuss it until the cows come home and it will probably never make it here with the clowns we have in charge

Wouldn’t say more nose weight the better for a number of reasons. It needs to have the weight over the axles with a little more up front.

skip to 3 mins

 

[Nicky Glanza]

Wouldn’t say more nose weight the better for a number of reasons. It needs to have the weight over the axles with a little more up front.

skip to 3 mins

Was going to watch that one it’s fascinating, must see what the nose weights are on our trailers

"more" is a loose term. But yes the trailer does need to be nose heavy. You wouldn't add huge amounts though for various practical reasons, plus as said, almost to towbars I've seen are rated at more than 100kg nose weight, most are only 50kg even if nearly all would be loaded more than that

And most stats for a Renault Trafic list max towing weight of 2000kg.

Towing limits

Find out the towing limits of your car and calculate the 85% towing advise for caravanning.

towcar.info

Yeah the trafics prob wouldn’t have a massive towing capacity being fwd but they do tow well but we always stick to rwd transits as they are good for 3.5t

 

[stevieturbo]

Wouldn’t say more nose weight the better for a number of reasons. It needs to have the weight over the axles with a little more up front.

skip to 3 mins

I bet none of the trailer tests show or explain any of this ?

 

[Coog]

I bet none of the trailer tests show or explain any of this ?

Nope. That’s stuff you’ve to work out yourself or use common sense on.

 

[BarryPort]

Pick up a few good tips over the years like putting the ratchet(s) on the near side, so when you stop 5mins down the road to check your load & you’re not exposed to traffic. Once you do it you’l never do it any other way.

Jesus @Coog I don’t know. I would say 70% of forum members wouldn’t know how to use a ratchet strap properly. We were sea fastening loads to the deck last trip offshore & there were guys with 10+ years experience just w*nking away letting the strap bind up in the ratchet. Unbelievable. I hate intervening like a Norman but I couldn’t ignore it.