Hot Hatches : Too big for their Boots?

[Gaz]

I get what you are saying, but I disagree somewhat. I think the problem now is that the hot-hatches are so quick that they need to be pushed farther towards their limit to get that excitement. You need to really learn what they are capable of and how much you can ask of them - something which is discovered over months rather than days.

I was blown away by the sheer pace of the M135i on a test drive and ordered one immediately, however after a few weeks of ownership I kina had the same feeling you did - bloody quick, but so capable you could be eating a bigmac meal while hitting corners at license loosing speeds. More recently though I have fallen back in love with it. As you get to know it and find it's limits (which take a while to find!) you can still get that rush, except now you are traveling a speeds that will end you if anything at all goes wrong. That might seem like a bad thing, but nobody is complaining that motorbikes or supercars are getting too fast to enjoy, and to enjoy them you're also traveling at speeds which will kill.

There are times that I get back into the house after driving a road I know like the back of my hand, and I have to sit in the car for a minute to chill out and get my heart rate back down - similar to the feeling I get after a good road on the motorbike. It is anything but boring, but at the same time I can then lift the shopping out of the boot.

The other thing I find is that when I had a focus ST and went for a hard run, I really felt like I was abusing the car and being really sore on it (as I imagine was similar with older "original" hot-hatches), whereas with the M135i I feel that it's taking it in it's stride, like the brakes and drive chain and chassis were made for it.

Good points. I mentioned in the article how hot hatches are getting so fast that they no longer feel like they fulfil our definition of what a 'hot hatch' has been - something you can use with abandon on a back road but well within your limits. Would you feel that's correct or should we just be moving with the times and accepting that things are going to be faster?

 

[Graham]

Yes all great debate there @Stebo

for me though a hot hatch is something you have to drive on the door handles and be scared of it.

modern cars are so fast its hard to actually get them on the limit for any decent length of road IMO

I would agree though regarding getting to know the cars, i only get this stuff for a week max which is enough to explore in depth but not maybe fully appreciate what a long term owner will feel

 

[Coog]

Perhaps you could argue that a modern day non-hot hatch is more fun in that case?

We live in a world obsessed with 0-60, bhp and torque. If it doesn't do a sub 8 minute Nurburgring lap it's barely worth mentioning, but perhaps the fun cars are the small engined, skinny tyred ones that everyone over looks? Sure - point to point it'll get destroyed by the faster cars, but does that make it less fun on a twisty road?

My 1.1 Seicento was a blast and I'm sure most folk would laugh their heads off at the thought of someone even suggesting that it was any craic at all. Basic motoring is absolutely brilliant fun and can still be had today, brand new from the dealerships. The biggest gripe is that not many of us could live with it day to day nor proudly discuss owning something akin to a washing machine on wheels down the local.

 

[2.2_Coupe]

but perhaps the fun cars are the small engined, skinny tyred ones that everyone over looks? Sure - point to point it'll get destroyed by the faster cars, but does that make it less fun on a twisty road?...

...The biggest gripe is that not many of us could live with it day to day nor proudly discuss owning something akin to a washing machine on wheels down the local.

^^^
This.
Any time I borrow the Mrs Cdi Smart Fortwo, I come home having felt like I've been out in a go-kart, with every corner becoming a challenge.
Coming home on Sunday mornings from work is brutal, a fight to stay awake in anything I owned, be ithe Rx8, V8 Merc, Celica etc - come home in the smart and it felt like I'd downed a tin of Valentino Rossi edition Monster!

 

[Stu Beck]

Today they are blown into the weeds, by the aforementioned Golf.

Really?

 

[Cess]

Great article @Gaz. Top quality. Enjoyed that read.

 

[Gaz]

Really?

Some are. Evo did a direct comparison review a few weeks back of the latest STi against the Golf R and (surprisingly to me) found that the Golf did all the things that Imprezas used to do, and which made them fun, and the STi just didn't. They had it on long term fleet use too and gave it a very negative writeup at the end. Hopefully Subaru will find their way again as the older Imprezas were always the more characterful of the rally breed cars.

@Cess - cheers. Working on next one.

 

[Stu Beck]

I just dont get the golfs at all. They just dont ring my bell. lol. Id rather save the money and buy a brand new 1.4 golf. They are all the same to me.

 

[brendy]

Really?

Exactly, I had a run against a stg2 remapped 30th anni and the golf didnae win and I certainly didnt lose and that is with a relatively small turbo on my wrx, plenty of turbo upgrades should I want to go faster still as I have everything else in place.

 

[Stu Beck]

I just think a drive in a golf should be a sunday tootle up the coast with your gran.

 

[Stu Beck]

I would pick the new type r over the golf any day. Maybe just my rice head on but it seems it would be a fun drive compared to a golf.

 

[Stu Beck]

As far as hot hatches go id rather they were a proper old fashioned hot hatch. Id rather have a blast round a country road in a1 300 sr nova than a astra vxr with 250 bhp.

 

[Gaz]

I would pick the new type r over the golf any day. Maybe just my rice head on but it seems it would be a fun drive compared to a golf.

You state that with the mindset that Golf = dull. In some forms yes, but I don't think anyone who's driven a Golf R could honestly say it's dull. Get a drive in one .

As far as hot hatches go id rather they were a proper old fashioned hot hatch. Id rather have a blast round a country road in a1 300 sr nova than a astra vxr with 250 bhp.

The Astra ironically is one of the more lairy hatches of recent years. I certainly thought my VXR was a handful compared to the likes of a Focus ST or Megane 225.

 

[Stu Beck]

But a fast car doesnt always mean an exciting car. Yes it has 300 bhp and is defo a fast car but not sure about exciting to drive. One of the most fun cars ive ever had was a mucas green 8v cupra and to this day I regret selling it. the gt86 and subaru brz are only 197 bhp and would be more fun to drive than the golf, maybe not as fast but exciting.

 

[Cooper]

You state that with the mindset that Golf = dull. In some forms yes, but I don't think anyone who's driven a Golf R could honestly say it's dull. Get a drive in one .

We can thank VW for the dark days of the horrendous MK3 and MK4 platform GTIs. Coincidentally the same time that Honda Type-Rs were at their best. Tables have turned now and I just don't think Honda have as compelling a package as Wolfsberg have come up with. In fact, they've been lagging for a while now on the performance front. The VTEC heyday of the late 90s is long done.

 

[Stu Beck]

Im maybe just a ricer but Ive had an ep3 and teg type r and again were two of the most fun cars to drive ive ever had.

 

[Cooper]

Im maybe just a ricer but Ive had an ep3 and teg type r and again were two of the most fun cars to drive ive ever had.

The DC2 and EP3 are quite different. Both @Gaz and myself have owned both.

The DC2 was an earlier generation car, old school B series engine, hand built with harsh VTEC engagement, 1 ton, perfectly balanced chassis, lauded handling sweet LSD/5speed gearbox. Sort of thing you could enter corners backwards in on track.

The EP3 was in comparison a mass market affair, softer edged, heavy in comparison, vague/understeering chassis, and with a decent K20 engine with more torque but not the same thrilling characteristics of the raw B18. It was also a breadvan, not that the ITR was pretty of course. I would take a DC2 in a heartbeat, but wouldn't thank you for an EP3.

 

[gary87]

Great article Gaz.

I love the Golf R, I was driving a Mk7 GTI DSG there for a while and as good as it was the sheer pace and top end of the R was different gravy. If I was in the hypothetical situtation of having £30,000 in my hand to buy a brand new car it would be hard to look past the R, I don't really see what else you could possibly need.

 

[O.C.D]

When i think of "hot hatches" i dont think of five door medium sized cars like the Golf R or the new honda type R ..don't get me wrong im sure these are super cars and brilliant all rounders but what if you don't want an all rounder, and you want a Hot Hatch this is the reason i went for the Fiesta ST ..it's the king of the hot hatches at the minute ...Fact.

 

[Gaz]

I agree the Fiesta is a cracking piece of kit, but regardless of size, the others are still perceived as hot hatches. Every incarnation of the Golf GTi has been labelled as a hot hatch, and the Golf R is no bigger or smaller than the equivalent GTi - just faster. A mature hot hatch perhaps.

The fiesta is probably more successful at embodying the traditional qualities we would associate with 90s hot hatches though - relatively light, chuckable, lithe.

 

[O.C.D]

Im not a golf expert but the mk1 looks more like a hot hatch to me and a good bit smaller. (i know that's not an R BTW)

 

[Gaz]

All the 80s hatches are smaller. Like every car. I didn't mean a mk7 golf r is no bigger than a mk1 GTi, I meant it's no bigger than the equivalent mk7 GTi - a car which is still considered a hot hatch.

Lighter and smaller is the way to go alright. One of the most fun drives I ever had was in a modified and tuned 200bhp mk1 golf with a 2.0 16v lump. Proper go-kart for the road.

 

[O.C.D]

Yeh @Gaz get your point.

 

[FM155]

My 1.1 Seicento was a blast and I'm sure most folk would laugh their heads off at the thought of someone even suggesting that it was any craic at all.

Got a 1.1 Sei for my lad as his first car in Litchfield direction and drove it home via the peak district and the lake district over some great B roads. Had an absolute ball in it. Unfortunately it had the crash capability of a crisp packet which we found out all about a few months later and he's minus one kneecap now as a result..

 

[Gaz]

Got a 1.1 Sei for my lad as his first car in Litchfield direction and drove it home via the peak district and the lake district over some great B roads. Had an absolute ball in it. Unfortunately it had the crash capability of a crisp packet which we found out all about a few months later and he's minus one kneecap now as a result..

Nasty!