The Ultimate X - Fiat X1/9

[svensktoppen]

Sounds a lot like the Elise, and sounds like epic fun No need for big bhp for big smiles!

Enjoy

 

[Mark Bowden]

Thanks, will do

 

[Mark Bowden]

caught the first couple of posts and just came back in now, absolutely fantastic project, keep the pics coming!

Thank you, appreciated.

 

[Mark Bowden]

Ergonomics.

I think it's fair to say the X1/9 is ergonomically challenged, meaning the layout of the instruments and controls is not ideal.
There has been a lot written about the X over the decades criticising offset and cramped pedals, lack of legroom for taller drivers, lack of space around the left knee (RHD cars), poor seats, and unreadable instrumentation.

This presents a huge problem for anyone who might be contemplating, how to improve the original interior whilst keeping the interior, looking original.

I think I will have to fit something like a Tillett carbon shell seat at a later date and this will mean the interior cannot look completely original, but in terms of the controls and instrumentation, improvements can be made without altering the rest of the interior too drastically.

I already mentioned, TRW or Cam Gears were the OEM steering rack manufacturers and quick-rack kits are available for both these. The original steering wheel is quite large, giving a lot of leverage at the expense of lazy turn-in and a severe lack of room between it and the driver's left knee and between the gear stick.

I decided not to change the rack itself but to fit a much smaller steering wheel at the expense of steering weight, which is now quite heavy up to about 20 mph but has improved the turn-in no end plus created a lot more room. I have also moved to horn push to the centre console and fitted a shorter steering boss (moving the wheel away), and done what the Americans call a 'short-shifter conversion'.

The business about the pedals, must be an urban myth - actually (or in my X at least) I find the pedal placement is excellent once you get used to it, and heeling and toeing is easy.

The knock-on effect of the small wheel, has been to move my hands closer together and they now obscure, annoyingly, almost all of the really important parts of the instruments. I cannot see the tacho past 11 o'clock, parts of the speedo, the oil pressure guage, oil warning light, battery warning light, temperature guage, and the change-up lights on the tacho. The centre part of the console is always visible, so why FIAT chose to put only the fuel guage and the indicator flasher here, is anyone's guess.

I felt pretty defeated at this point, thinking how stupid I was not to have realised this was inevitable. I had finished the installation and made it worse.

I decided to install the Hall sensor on the gearbox output shaft, but had to extend the wiring loom in the process. I couldn't get the speedo to read the sensor despite having tested all the individual wires from source to destination. I contacted the company for some help in diagnosing the problem. They asked me to send the speedo head and sensor back for testing.

I had no choice but to uninstall the whole cluster and open the case and undo a lot of work, actually it was a nightmare but only because I hadn't considered how to reverse my assembly process. This is now the fourth time I've had the cluster out, and in effect it was back to the drawing board.

Don't give up. Don't just revert to the original steering wheel as a quick (but lame) fix, I thought.

List of solutions -

1. There is a socket on the back of the tacho where you can connect remote change-up lights. I noticed there is a small channel between the top of the case in the centre above the indicator flasher, behind where it says 'Bertone', and that the badge is a separate piece which can be removed by undoing the 'welds' with a soldering iron, leaving an aperture identical to the one for the indicator flasher. The remote change-up lights were in a small rectangular box which I opened, and extracted the LED's which are mounted direct to a PCB. I cut a slot in the case to allow the PCB to be inserted sideways behind the 'Bertone' aperture. I widened the aperture slightly and made an aluminium insert.

2. There is no provision in the software to turn the change-up lights on and off so I installed a small switch next to the tacho (at 5 o'clock) to do this.

3. I decided to duplicate the oil warning and battery lights, by jumping the connections off the original Veglia PCB. You can see the places where I will connect a pair of LED's. I guess these look like little ball bearings. There is just about enough space for the LED's to either side of the fuel guage where I've drilled holes at 4:30 and 7:30 o'clock.

4. The patinated glass inserts for the fuel guage and the oil / water guage, caused the needles and scales to appear blurred. I made some new ones out of clear perspex instead. I can change these later if I need to, from the front using a kid's arrow with rubber sucker, they just pull out.

I will take some more pics of the (hopefully final) build up, when the speedo and sensor arrive back.

I'm hopeful these mods will make all the difference.

 

[Mark Bowden]

 

[svensktoppen]

I think you're well past the point of worrying about originality anyway. Think of it as recreating a race car rather than a road car and it won't feel like you're "bastidising" it at all. I know exactly what you mean, having the exact same argument right now myself. At the end of the day it's about maximising your own enjoyment of the car while trying to stay true to the spirit of the original, but not being shackled by the past.

Just keep up the amazing attention to detail and thoughtful tweaks to make it all just so for you.

Small steering wheel is definitely the way to go! You'd hate it switching back to the larger wheel. Lack of PAS only matters for parking anyway, as soon as it's moving it's fine.

Real men can turn a wheel themselves

 

[Mark Bowden]

I think you're well past the point of worrying about originality anyway. Think of it as recreating a race car rather than a road car and it won't feel like you're "bastidising" it at all. I know exactly what you mean, having the exact same argument right now myself. At the end of the day it's about maximising your own enjoyment of the car while trying to stay true to the spirit of the original, but not being shackled by the past.

Just keep up the amazing attention to detail and thoughtful tweaks to make it all just so for you.

Small steering wheel is definitely the way to go! You'd hate it switching back to the larger wheel. Lack of PAS only matters for parking anyway, as soon as it's moving it's fine.

Real men can turn a wheel themselves

Thanks mate... I've been checking out your stats - 23,557 messages. What can I say other than bloody hell, and hey I hope this site hasn't completely taken over your life !
Re your last comments, I think - spot on.
I learned to drive in a Series 2 LWB Landy, so I guess things like 'heavy steering' are relative haha.
I clearly remember the 'shin-biter' (tow hitch), and the 'knuckle-crusher' (gear lever).
Can you point me in the right direction - I'm looking for a nice 13'' / 32cm steering wheel ?
Have you posted anything about your Elise ?

 

[svensktoppen]

Lol, I'm a loooong way from the worst dudes here

Have a browse through the "member's cars" section, there are some serious projects going on. Like these two:

Project '53 Truck

I may have hinted at it before but since I sold the defender ive been after a proper workhorse project that can really do some heavy lifting. I wanted something with a 7T GVW cool and could handle a cummins pushing some proper poke without imploding. Capable of moving vechiles without a trailer...

rmsmotoring.com

Westfield Wide Body Turbo

So I took a half-notion last week and put up a wanted ad for a 'Westfield Chassis' as a winter project.....An hour later I did the deal on this. (this is the photo I received from him pre-purchase lol) It was collected by Bartlett Transport on Wednesday from Derby and I received it at 9am...

rmsmotoring.com

The post-Rover chapter in the Elise saga is here:

Lotus Princess II

[Continuing from here: http://reallymeansounds.com/forum/threads/lotus-princess-updates-autolifers-feature-post-386.113826/ ] New chapter, new thread, onwards and up :) Donor car sorted, insurance done, all bits gathered, and @AIRFORCE1 at the ready to take it all on. What could possibly go...

rmsmotoring.com

There's a link in the first post to the Rover-phase that went before.

Get the kettle on, lol

 

[Mark Bowden]

I got the kettle on (several times) and I'm not even scratching the surface !
Am I right in saying your Elise has, or is getting a K20 ?
Very popular swap for the X also, there is a kit for it in the US.
I take it you're Irish and living in Ireland then ?
Looks like there's lots of great roads where you are, and little traffic.
I'm on the coast in Dorset, the best road here is the coast road between Bridport and Weymouth... it's jam packed with tourists for a lot of the year.
Dangerous too, quite a few fatalities etc.
Makes me think I'm living in the wrong place but work and family keep me here.
My gran was Irish (from county Sligo I think).
Not a good history... they left during the second famine.
But back to cars... I'm very impressed by your attention to detail.
You understand setup is crucial to a great drive, and I imagine things like tyre pressure are very important on the Elise.
Way to go

 

[svensktoppen]

She got the Honda back in 2014 after the Rover eventually blew up - literally - lol. The Rover was a great fun engine too and we had a lot of fun with it, but it was a bit fragile (cough...) and eventually got pushed that wee bit too far

No looking back after the Honda, the engine they should always have had! The X1/9 with one of them must be lethal

Tyre pressures do matter, yes.

I'd be down in Dorset at least once a month, love it down there. Mostly Purbeck/Salisbury/Ringwood area. Also a lot around Cambridge. And NI and around Ireland. And generally out and about, lol.

Certainly more quiet roads over on the other side of the Irish sea. Very pretty too!

 

[Mark Bowden]

Thanks for filling in some of the gaps, sven - crikey, you get about lol.
Lethal, yes, even without a blower... guess this is double lethal then ;
Maybe see you in Dorset sometime... although it'll be a while before my X is up and running, you know how it is - waiting in queues !
All the best.

 

[Mark Bowden]

I found this documentary about Manuel Dondi.
Unfortunately I don't speak good Italian so I can't offer a translation !

 

[Mark Bowden]

I got the speedo back from SPA today, busy week at work but I hope to finish the installation of the instruments over the weekend.
The fault was traced to a blown capacitor which has been replaced.

Sven, if you're interested in meeting sometime in Dorset then I suggest either The Rainbow Garage, East Knighton (east of Dorchester) or The Cock and Bottle, Morden (near Wareham) where there is a small classic car meeting on the first Monday of each month.

 

[svensktoppen]

Sven, if you're interested in meeting sometime in Dorset then I suggest either The Rainbow Garage, East Knighton (east of Dorchester) or The Cock and Bottle, Morden (near Wareham) where there is a small classic car meeting on the first Monday of each month.

That would be very doable, I'd be regularly down round that general area, lovely part of the country. Usually on weekends though.

 

[Mark Bowden]

That would be very doable, I'd be regularly down round that general area, lovely part of the country. Usually on weekends though.

Great, I'd love to see the Elise sometime.
It's going to be months before the X is back on the road with its new engine... but I can bring the unmodified one anytime.
As long as it's dry and the salt has been washed away that is.
I guess that means sometime in the spring at the earliest.
Cheers.

 

[michelinman]

Just went through the last longer update there. Know exactly what you mean when you bond with a car like that, you get to know all the wee foibles, it's got character and personality. Before you know it you give it a name and start taking to it like an old friend

My wee Elise is called Princess and we have far too close a relationship by now

I can sooooo relate to this!

@Mark Bowden - what a great project! I really love the details you have managed to incorporate so well! It is still an X1/9, but somehow a really refined looking X1/9 I love it! Honestly, I never warmed to these cars when they were on the road, but your car has made me change my opinion. Well done and I am really looking forward reading more!

 

[Mark Bowden]

I can sooooo relate to this!

@Mark Bowden - what a great project! I really love the details you have managed to incorporate so well! It is still an X1/9, but somehow a really refined looking X1/9 I love it! Honestly, I never warmed to these cars when they were on the road, but your car has made me change my opinion. Well done and I am really looking forward reading more!

Thanks for the positive feedback...

Just to recap, I did a long period of research before diving in during which time I refined my criteria many times.
I am a big fan of the original Lotus Elan and Europa, and was aware of Colin Chapman's build philosophy from the outset, in other words 'build it light'.
In addition I knew that balance is important (I'm not a big fan of wild understeer, or oversteer) and that a front mid or rear mid layout offers the best balance.
Then there was the cost, and almost all my favourite cars got crossed off over the years on account of skyrocketing prices. A good example would be the Dino 246 GT.

I did my apprenticeship in the early 90's on the Aston Martin DB4 /5/6 series and felt I had gained a pretty good idea of how NOT to build a car as a result (happy to digress if anyone's interested) and in terms of construction settled early on the all-steel monocoque (asm) type.
The basic criteria became (asm) + under 1 tonne + rear mid layout + under 5k for the base vehicle.
Some of you might be laughing at this point, seeing as I had in effect ruled out almost every single production car you care to think of.
Finally and because I love Italian cars, there was literally no other choice but to choose the X despite it being an unknown quantity.
I could have bought one when they were new, but at that point in my life I wanted something quicker and more practical so I ran a 130TC Abarth for 9 years as my daily and inevitably it rusted away.
I remember the X had a reputation as a bit of a 'hairdresser's car' in comparison, slow, and also prone to rust.

Then began the process of actually finding one that was worth doing - not easy seeing as there's like 240 rhd cars left of which about half are basket cases.
In the end I bought 3 - and they are all good and bad in different ways, drove me crazy for a while working out what was what.
(I need to sell one of them I don't have anywhere to keep it).

Even now, years in to the project I'm still hard pushed if someone asks me 'what is it that's so good about the X1/9?'
It's not the driving position or the build quality or the interior or the targa top or the wedge shape and it's not the wheels or the bumpers or the colour. Which doesn't leave much !
I think it's the all-steel monocoque, parts of the suspension, the engine, the configuration, and the weight primarily.
In other words I agree 100% with Gian Paolo Dallara.

So it boils down to this - it's the genius of Marcello Gandini + the genius of Aurelio Lampredi.
Gandini created what is arguably a 'scale-supercar' in the X1/9, which he designed around the Lampredi SOHC.
I will have to do more research but I think the story probably begins with Enzo Ferrari in some ways, arguably although this would not be a mainstream opinion I think.

The X1/9 has such excellent provenance - it cannot be pure coincidence that it's still a competitive platform today, nearly FIFTY YEARS after it was designed.
In layman's terms, they make bloody good racecars, these.

 

[Mark Bowden]

Quick update on the instruments - bottom line, everything's back together plus some improvements.

I think that front fog lights must have been a factory option, or were standard on the later 1500's.
There is a green lamp, top right of the combined oil/water gauge in the cluster that I took out of the D-reg.
I wanted to keep this cluster intact so I put it on the shelf and bought another one.
It might have come originally from an earlier car, or from a late car without front fog lights.
On closer inspection, I noticed there was no green lens, and no provision for a bulb on the pcb either - it has contacts but no hole in the board !
I couldn't remember if the lamp had worked on the cluster I'd taken out.
There might not even be a circuit connected to it.

Having thought about it a bit more, I concluded there was a reasonable chance that there was a circuit in the car, so the next thing was to drill out the pcb and file some notches to accept the bulb holder.
Using a white paint-pen I was able (after many attempts) to draw a fog light icon onto a green folder.

The folder was too pale so I used some clear resin to bond 3 layers together to make it darker.
I had also noticed that despite having fitted really bright blue LED's for the night illumination, hardly any light was landing on the dial itself.
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what was going on.
In the end I used a combination of white acrylic paint and foil tape to reflect the light around the speedo and tacho, same for the fuel gauge.

I mentioned earlier I decided to duplicate the oil and battery warning lights to the centre part of the cluster where they can be seen all the time, also I put a set of remote change-up lights centre top - it seemed a better solution than sticking them to the top of the binnacle or on the inside of the windscreen somewhere. I wanted them to be discrete and for the whole cluster to look more or less OE at a glance. Also I fitted a switch near the tacho so I can turn these on or off, plus the pin switches for programming the gauges I put near the clocks as opposed to in the centre console.

I couldn't solve the problems arising from having retained the fake bezels on the fuel and oil gauges - there was no way of securely fixing the lenses I'd made in such a way they could be removed.
If I do another of these, I will CNC these fake bezels away completely and make new ones to hold the lenses. Wish I'd noticed earlier, but never mind.
I drilled holes in the lenses instead, put some tiny captive nuts on the back, and painted the screws matt black.
Not that happy about the result but at least they can be taken out and cleaned or replaced from the front.

 

[Mark Bowden]

To those of you who've been reading so far ... I think certain of us would agree it's important to study.
I'm possibly a little odd, in that I've been drawing parallels between industrial design, sport, and art ; for most of my adult life - three decades plus.
There is such a thing in squash, table tennis, or grass-court tennis which is called 'the perfect serve'.
The perfect serve, is unbeatable. It also looks right.
Some people have gained such a degree of skill, they can perform consistently at the highest level.
Even at this level, there remains - individual style - so that arguably there is speed, power, accuracy, and beauty all together, all at once.
I think this also applies to just about anything you care to mention. It's what separates the very best from the nearly very best - top 100, top 10, top 3.
Both the object and the subject are critical in certain art forms, such as in film for example.
Great photography isn't enough in itself - there needs to be a both a great script and great subject matter as well.

I've been studying the evolution of Manuel Dondi's X1/9 quite carefully over the past few years.
Here is what I believe to be the best camerawork I've found, of the car to date.
Considering the car is so quick, I can imagine that just keeping it in the frame is a challenge.
Then there's the challenge of the hill itself - the course - and of the concept and preparation of the vehicle plus the man behind the wheel.
There is no room for error in the search for the perfect line.
And the perfect line IS beautiful.
2:19 is a good example of how to get through three corners in one line - despite severe changes in camber, by god is that car PLANTED.

 

[michelinman]

That is literal kart like handling! Do you know how much of his car is still original X1/9? Not trying to be cheeky, genuinely interested

 

[Mark Bowden]

That is literal kart like handling! Do you know how much of his car is still original X1/9? Not trying to be cheeky, genuinely interested

Haha, well the answer is - almost nothing except the bodyshell.
I posted a documentary about the car recently, in Italian but there's a lot of information about the mechanics.
I don't know if the car is a genuine Dallara or a stock X1/9 with a Dallara style bodykit.
Maybe I can get a translation - a friend of mine speaks Italian.

 

[Mark Bowden]

Today I went to Auto Engineering to pick up the pedal box.
The chassis had been blasted and painted, all the threads reamed out and the new phosphor bronze bush fitted to replace the OE plastic part that was badly worn and horribly squeaky.
Very pleased with the result - there is virtually no play in the pedals now, and the action is silky smooth and completely silent.
The actuator rods for the pumps have also been bored out and the couplings on the ends of the pedals sleeved to fit.
I need to clean the paint off the couplings before I attach the rods which are held in place by flat washers and split pins.
The next stage will be to start putting all the components I took off the chassis, back on, so it's ready to install in the car as a finished sub-component.

Before...

...and after -

 

[svensktoppen]

That's a really good job

 

[michelinman]

Haha, well the answer is - almost nothing except the bodyshell.
I posted a documentary about the car recently, in Italian but there's a lot of information about the mechanics.
I don't think the car is a genuine Dallara, more likely a stock X1/9 which pays close attention to the original Group 5 silhouette racer, going further but definitely down the same route eg the wheelbase is longer and the track is wider.
The location of the rear strut topmounts proves this.

Aaah! Well it still looks like an x1/9, so if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... etc etc lol

There’s couple of guys I work with who Italian too, so I might get them to do a running commentary for me

Pedal box looks great! I love Phosphor Bronze, its so smooth in my opinion. I just can’t help thinking everytime it’s used, a little microscopic sliver of material gets worn away and I wish it could be collected I think you’ll really enjoy using the pedals now!

 

[Mark Bowden]

Aaah! Well it still looks like an x1/9, so if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... etc etc lol

There’s couple of guys I work with who Italian too, so I might get them to do a running commentary for me

Pedal box looks great! I love Phosphor Bronze, its so smooth in my opinion. I just can’t help thinking everytime it’s used, a little microscopic sliver of material gets worn away and I wish it could be collected I think you’ll really enjoy using the pedals now!

Lol yes those microscopic particles it's very important to collect them!
I use silicone grease, so they stick to it and form a fine paste, which helps create a self-lubricating bearing in effect.
Good idea to get a translation of the documentary by the way... I'd be really interested to hear some of the details.
That D2 Alfa engine is something else eh.
I would not be surprised if it needs to be rebuilt every 50 hours, it's in such a high state of tune - as per the SuperTouring.
What's really fascinating is the amalgamation of 'Gruppo Fiat' to include Lancia and Alfa Romeo.
In fact, if you check the documentary you will see 'Gruppo Fiat - Alfa - Lancia - FIAT' on the engine casting somewhere.
The D2 is a two litre twin cam, single-spark, 8V, aluminium head, iron block engine.
It uses the Lampredi DOHC block as the base, eg same as in many famous cars of the era such as the 037 Lancia or Fiat 131 Abarth Rallye.