Attempting To Daily a 1930 Ford Model A
- Thread starter althebass
- Start date
Graham
RMS Photographer
3,000+ mile road trips across Europe and into Sweden in a Honda K20 engined Lotus Elise would be a usual occurrence.
Big Pimp
RMS Trader
Not just go with a led lightbar?Lol, welcome to old cars
I've bought some bulbs off classic car leds and they've been spot on. Perfect fit and do the job exactly as it says on the tin. Not quite as odd ball as your bulbs but they have a ridiculous variety of weird and wonderful bulbs in all sorts of configurations.
In the Lotus, if I have to drive in the dark, I get a lot more light from the cars behind than from my own headlights
i recently fitted a lazerlamps elite to my van and it’s frightening how bright it is, even compared to previous lightbars
- Thread Starter
- #56
Week 1:
Failures to start: Zero
Failures to proceed: 1 (started ,no lights)
Successful commutes: 1.5/5 (abandoned at work)
Having thought the bulb blowing had just happened, and had just happened to take out a fuse was wishful thinking
I got home fine on Monday but on Tuesday morning the lights were doing weird things again. I managed to get 1 headlight working so clipped the red bike lights on the back and set off.
Through the town was fine then got the dog to navigate from 6 Road Ends.
Made it to work and have been more or less working on it since ffs
I'll shout out Mike my boss for letting me bring it in, for me to barely do any work this week and for letting me make use of our apprentice before he heads off to Williams F1 in January!
My last apprentice is now a senior aerodynamicist at Renault so at least he's on the path Lol...
He really is, but I jest as it's got everything to do with him and nothing to do with being sworn at by a bass player years ago
So BASSically the problem with the car is the dynamo is putting out 18v instead of the 6v the car is meant to have!
That's why the bulbs were blowing then
There's no voltage regulator, there's just a rely on top of the dynamo that disconnects it from the battery when it's putting out more than 6v. This stops it trying to work like a motor when the engine isn't running, that's all.
Charging amps are controlled by an adjustable 3rd brush inside the dynamo which you can move up and down.
You can set it to charge the battery, or have lights OR charge while the lights are on and f*ck the battery when they're not
I can deal with that as a quirk as its easy enough to adjust for summer/winter but it doesn't explain the over voltage.
The windings in the early Ford dynamos are wired in series, so there's only one big connection rather than 2. This means that the dynamo voltage output is only controlled by what voltage it's seeing from the battery, I think!
If there's a voltage drop anywhere between the dynamo rely and the convoluted path it takes back to the battery then the dynamo doesn't know the craic and assumes 'more' is 'better'.
No.
So basically we've rewired the car as per the original diagrams (it's Positive earth for a start, which is a b*stard but I just call them 'feed' and 'earth' and cross fingers. B*stard. And it's been wired in a more modern manner, with a power from the ignition switch to the coil and a fuse box!
.)
I'm stubbornly hanging onto 6v +veEarth but if the c*nt isn't careful it won't last.
With all the wiring as Henry intended and 'most' of the added wipers/lights/indicators etc working and no smoke getting out we checked the battery @ '6.2v'
Started her up, which it did, and...!
18v at the dynamo, just like before. F*ck sake!
Ran out of time so just left it and ran away home.
I'm confident it's a wiring problem, or the dynamo. I have a spare dynamo to try and a Lucas 6v voltage regulator however I think the latter would just be masking the problem.
Time will tell.
Biggest reason for the bonnet being off is as it's centre hinged it's a pain in the a*se to work on both sides at once!
Right, sorry, PICTURES!
With the car being off the road and in the workshop I got Williams' boy to help me move the front seats backwards.
I'm tallish but not silly and am not really comfortable in the car. Back seat legroom however is ridiculous so I figured moving the mounts about 6in back would give me more room and still allow the kids and dog to get into the back.
There's no adjustment in the seats, other than bolting the front mounts/pivots the other way, with the seat only being attached at the front.
As the front seat backs are hinged too they fold down then the whole seat on up/forward to gain access to the back seats.
Original mounts:
Pulled out the floor boards (yep, boards) and put some 50mmx50mm angle between the chassis rails where we wanted the seats to be.
If we just bolted the original mounts to the angle they'd be too low. If we cut them down and welded them on it would be a bit sh*t so we made some gusseted up stands from more of the angle.
Frank's lovechild drew them and I used the big boys toys to cut them out and tack them on.
Trial fitted in the car and stuck the seats in (after)
Had to do a bit of flappy disk to get the seat happy on it's pivot but a trial fit gave me much more legroom and I wasn't stooping down as much to see out.
I'll get sprog 1 to give it a POR-15 in the next few weeks.
I've left the original mounts intact and don't want to cut the floorboards up so I'll cut a piece of 19mm ply to fill the hole, from the template.
That's us up to date, should get into work on Sunday for a few hours to hopefully get the charging sorted.
Ali
Failures to start: Zero
Failures to proceed: 1 (started ,no lights)
Successful commutes: 1.5/5 (abandoned at work)
Having thought the bulb blowing had just happened, and had just happened to take out a fuse was wishful thinking
I got home fine on Monday but on Tuesday morning the lights were doing weird things again. I managed to get 1 headlight working so clipped the red bike lights on the back and set off.
Through the town was fine then got the dog to navigate from 6 Road Ends.
Made it to work and have been more or less working on it since ffs
I'll shout out Mike my boss for letting me bring it in, for me to barely do any work this week and for letting me make use of our apprentice before he heads off to Williams F1 in January!
My last apprentice is now a senior aerodynamicist at Renault so at least he's on the path
Lol...He really is, but I jest as it's got everything to do with him and nothing to do with being sworn at by a bass player years ago
So BASSically the problem with the car is the dynamo is putting out 18v instead of the 6v the car is meant to have!
That's why the bulbs were blowing then
There's no voltage regulator, there's just a rely on top of the dynamo that disconnects it from the battery when it's putting out more than 6v. This stops it trying to work like a motor when the engine isn't running, that's all.
Charging amps are controlled by an adjustable 3rd brush inside the dynamo which you can move up and down.
You can set it to charge the battery, or have lights OR charge while the lights are on and f*ck the battery when they're not
I can deal with that as a quirk as its easy enough to adjust for summer/winter but it doesn't explain the over voltage.
The windings in the early Ford dynamos are wired in series, so there's only one big connection rather than 2. This means that the dynamo voltage output is only controlled by what voltage it's seeing from the battery, I think!
If there's a voltage drop anywhere between the dynamo rely and the convoluted path it takes back to the battery then the dynamo doesn't know the craic and assumes 'more' is 'better'.
No.
So basically we've rewired the car as per the original diagrams (it's Positive earth for a start, which is a b*stard but I just call them 'feed' and 'earth' and cross fingers. B*stard. And it's been wired in a more modern manner, with a power from the ignition switch to the coil and a fuse box!
.)I'm stubbornly hanging onto 6v +veEarth but if the c*nt isn't careful it won't last.
With all the wiring as Henry intended and 'most' of the added wipers/lights/indicators etc working and no smoke getting out we checked the battery @ '6.2v'
Started her up, which it did, and...!
18v at the dynamo, just like before. F*ck sake!
Ran out of time so just left it and ran away home.
I'm confident it's a wiring problem, or the dynamo. I have a spare dynamo to try and a Lucas 6v voltage regulator however I think the latter would just be masking the problem.
Time will tell.
Biggest reason for the bonnet being off is as it's centre hinged it's a pain in the a*se to work on both sides at once!
Right, sorry, PICTURES!
With the car being off the road and in the workshop I got Williams' boy to help me move the front seats backwards.
I'm tallish but not silly and am not really comfortable in the car. Back seat legroom however is ridiculous so I figured moving the mounts about 6in back would give me more room and still allow the kids and dog to get into the back.
There's no adjustment in the seats, other than bolting the front mounts/pivots the other way, with the seat only being attached at the front.
As the front seat backs are hinged too they fold down then the whole seat on up/forward to gain access to the back seats.
Original mounts:
Pulled out the floor boards (yep, boards
) and put some 50mmx50mm angle between the chassis rails where we wanted the seats to be.If we just bolted the original mounts to the angle they'd be too low. If we cut them down and welded them on it would be a bit sh*t so we made some gusseted up stands from more of the angle.
Frank's lovechild drew them and I used the big boys toys to cut them out and tack them on.
Trial fitted in the car and stuck the seats in (after)
Had to do a bit of flappy disk to get the seat happy on it's pivot but a trial fit gave me much more legroom and I wasn't stooping down as much to see out.
I'll get sprog 1 to give it a POR-15 in the next few weeks.
I've left the original mounts intact and don't want to cut the floorboards up so I'll cut a piece of 19mm ply to fill the hole, from the template.
That's us up to date, should get into work on Sunday for a few hours to hopefully get the charging sorted.
Ali
Last edited:
svensktoppen
RMS Regular
- Messages
- 32,800
- Drives
- FK2 CTR
Awesome
Sounds like you may have the wrong dynamo? The regulator should fix the problem, then it won't matter what the dynamo does.
Sounds like you may have the wrong dynamo? The regulator should fix the problem, then it won't matter what the dynamo does.
Paul.
RMS Regular
- Messages
- 1,384
I was convinced this thread was a (brilliant) wind-up. It's even better! You are an utter madman and the world is a better place for it.
I am also firmly in the pro Metro plates camp. Not because they're better looking, but because I think the result would be hilarious.
I am also firmly in the pro Metro plates camp. Not because they're better looking, but because I think the result would be hilarious.
acsmyth
RMS Regular
Amazing! Wonder what lap time it’s do round Kirky
- Thread Starter
- #61
I popped into work for a few hours on Sunday and got the charging problem sorted.
This is the wee relay on the output of the dynamo:
I took it off and used mostly a power file to clean up all the connections between it and the dynamo, including the 2 mounting screws which earth it.
Fired it up and had 6.4 volts output.
Promising!
Set it for a very high idle with the hand throttle and... 7.2v at the most. Perfect!
I had adjusted the 3rd brush in the dynamo right up for least output so it’s not charging with the lights on but I got in the post today the LED headlight bulbs so I’ll fit them tomorrow and set the brush for about 1-2 amps of charge with the lights on and just drive with them on for the next few months.
Here’s where the dynamo is in the engine bay, the brushes are under the band shaped cover at the opposite end to the pulley.
You can see the distributor cap at the top of the engine. There’s no plug wires as such, just some copper ribbons down to each plug.
The starter is the black cylinder on the right. The wee rod coming down to it at 45 degrees is what connects the starter button on the floor inside to the starter switch! No extra wiring or solenoid to go wrong.
You just push on the button with your foot and the rod pushes the big connection in.
I have also f*cked off the orange front motorbike indicators that had been added to the front and wired in the wee running lights to flash instead.
I cut the new plywood floor as per the Williams’ chief designer’s plans and it didn’t fit so if the side pods are a bit off next year you’ll know why.
Hacked a bit more off and hammered it in.
I’ll put the screws in in the new year when we paint the seat bracket etc.
Trimmed the floor mat and bolted the seats in.
I’ll take pics again but I’m much more comfortable driving and can see out the windscreen without stooping as much. When the passenger seat is folded forward there’s still plenty of room to get in the back.
(Sprog 1 and I picked up 2 of his big teenage mates on the way home and sitting in the back their knees weren’t at the front seat backs.)
Another wee thing I sorted was the radiator cap. The rubber seal had gone so I got the 2 diameters with some calliper thingys and marked them out on some conveyor belt rubber and cut it out.
The inside was a bit tricky with the knife but the outside was fine with strong scissors.
Stretched it over the bayonet and it worked a treat.
Left the M3 at work and drove the A around Bangor for a while and then home without issue.
The car is due a bit of a grease and the brakes adjusted etc which I’ll get to after Xmas.
There’s quite a bit of free play in the clutch pedal too before it does anything so I’ll need to look into that, although it’s light to use and still disengages as it should.
Got to work today, but it wasn’t easy
Would the bast*ard start?
Would it f*ck.
I had remembered to turn on the cut off, I had even remembered to turn on the ignition and retard the spark on the steering wheel but it coughed a few times and then just churned and churned and churned.
More and more slowly on the 6v battery.
Is this what I signed up for?!
I guess so!
The choke is a funny one on this car, you turn it to adjust the fuel mixture so I had it just over half a turn out for cold weather.
Quarter is fine for the summer apparently!
You only pull the choke out momentarily on cranking then straight back in almost before it fires.
I’ve got the hang of driving the car fairly well by now but my expectation for it not to start got the better of me this morning and I thought I had messed up the choke pull/push in a couple of times and fouled the plugs.
I was half way to my toolbox for a spanner to take the plugs out and clean them when I realised I hadn’t turned the fuel tap on
Back to the car and it fired up straight away. Advanced the spark a bit and it was happily ticking over and I set off.
It was still dark and raining and the lights are still sh*t, still no charging with the lights on and no wiper (the motor has either got f*cked by the over voltage or just decided enough’s enough at this point but it’s just blowing fuses).
Spent the first part of the journey copying the dog with my head out the window, then when it got really bad on the country roads with xenons everywhere we just held each other in the back.
When do the clocks go forward?
Does that make this better or worse?
Found a wiper motor in work from a customers car when it was converted to 12v.
It will fit my car but the spindle diameter is 1/4” and my old one is 3/16”
They’re both aftermarket, this used to have vacuum wipers!
I’ll try to swap the spindles tomorrow and if not I’ll try to turn the big one from the working motor down in the lathe to fit my arm.
Left the A at work and drove the M3 home.
The boss is going to pick me up in the morning, will get the new bulbs in, the wiper sorted and hopefully commute myself back with cleaner pants than I had this morning.
Might even do a bit of work while I’m there ffs
Ali
This is the wee relay on the output of the dynamo:
I took it off and used mostly a power file to clean up all the connections between it and the dynamo, including the 2 mounting screws which earth it.
Fired it up and had 6.4 volts output.
Promising!
Set it for a very high idle with the hand throttle and... 7.2v at the most. Perfect!
I had adjusted the 3rd brush in the dynamo right up for least output so it’s not charging with the lights on but I got in the post today the LED headlight bulbs so I’ll fit them tomorrow and set the brush for about 1-2 amps of charge with the lights on and just drive with them on for the next few months.
Here’s where the dynamo is in the engine bay, the brushes are under the band shaped cover at the opposite end to the pulley.
You can see the distributor cap at the top of the engine. There’s no plug wires as such, just some copper ribbons down to each plug.
The starter is the black cylinder on the right. The wee rod coming down to it at 45 degrees is what connects the starter button on the floor inside to the starter switch! No extra wiring or solenoid to go wrong.
You just push on the button with your foot and the rod pushes the big connection in.
I have also f*cked off the orange front motorbike indicators that had been added to the front and wired in the wee running lights to flash instead.
I cut the new plywood floor as per the Williams’ chief designer’s plans and it didn’t fit so if the side pods are a bit off next year you’ll know why.
Hacked a bit more off and hammered it in.
I’ll put the screws in in the new year when we paint the seat bracket etc.
Trimmed the floor mat and bolted the seats in.
I’ll take pics again but I’m much more comfortable driving and can see out the windscreen without stooping as much. When the passenger seat is folded forward there’s still plenty of room to get in the back.
(Sprog 1 and I picked up 2 of his big teenage mates on the way home and sitting in the back their knees weren’t at the front seat backs.)
Another wee thing I sorted was the radiator cap. The rubber seal had gone so I got the 2 diameters with some calliper thingys and marked them out on some conveyor belt rubber and cut it out.
The inside was a bit tricky with the knife but the outside was fine with strong scissors.
Stretched it over the bayonet and it worked a treat.
Left the M3 at work and drove the A around Bangor for a while and then home without issue.
The car is due a bit of a grease and the brakes adjusted etc which I’ll get to after Xmas.
There’s quite a bit of free play in the clutch pedal too before it does anything so I’ll need to look into that, although it’s light to use and still disengages as it should.
Got to work today, but it wasn’t easy
Would the bast*ard start?
Would it f*ck.
I had remembered to turn on the cut off, I had even remembered to turn on the ignition and retard the spark on the steering wheel but it coughed a few times and then just churned and churned and churned.
More and more slowly on the 6v battery.
Is this what I signed up for?!
I guess so!
The choke is a funny one on this car, you turn it to adjust the fuel mixture so I had it just over half a turn out for cold weather.
Quarter is fine for the summer apparently!
You only pull the choke out momentarily on cranking then straight back in almost before it fires.
I’ve got the hang of driving the car fairly well by now but my expectation for it not to start got the better of me this morning and I thought I had messed up the choke pull/push in a couple of times and fouled the plugs.
I was half way to my toolbox for a spanner to take the plugs out and clean them when I realised I hadn’t turned the fuel tap on
Back to the car and it fired up straight away. Advanced the spark a bit and it was happily ticking over and I set off.
It was still dark and raining and the lights are still sh*t, still no charging with the lights on and no wiper (the motor has either got f*cked by the over voltage or just decided enough’s enough at this point but it’s just blowing fuses).
Spent the first part of the journey copying the dog with my head out the window, then when it got really bad on the country roads with xenons everywhere we just held each other in the back.
When do the clocks go forward?
Does that make this better or worse?
Found a wiper motor in work from a customers car when it was converted to 12v.
It will fit my car but the spindle diameter is 1/4” and my old one is 3/16”
They’re both aftermarket, this used to have vacuum wipers!
I’ll try to swap the spindles tomorrow and if not I’ll try to turn the big one from the working motor down in the lathe to fit my arm.
Left the A at work and drove the M3 home.
The boss is going to pick me up in the morning, will get the new bulbs in, the wiper sorted and hopefully commute myself back with cleaner pants than I had this morning.
Might even do a bit of work while I’m there ffs
Ali
Laundrymike
RMS Regular
Looking forward to the next instalment already...keep it up!
veedubnoodle
RMS Regular
This is so good to read! Looking forward to the next installment 
vw1500
RMS Regular
- Messages
- 1,826
- Drives
- VW
Brilliant, love reading this, don't know how I missed it until now. Be prepared for more niggles as chances are you're the only person to drive this car at night or in winter for a long time! Get them sorted and it'll be great craic, I'd similar issues when started to daily a late 60s car(what your car would call a new fangled modern contraption ) couldn't be many people dailying something that age! Fair play.
You haven't been tempted to buy a pinstripe suit and tommygun to rob a bank yet?
) couldn't be many people dailying something that age! Fair play.You haven't been tempted to buy a pinstripe suit and tommygun to rob a bank yet?
- Thread Starter
- #67
Hi,
The LED headlight bulbs arrived so I fitted them.
A 15 second job on this car if you take your time. There’s a spring loaded clip on the bottom of light unit, release it and the rim comes off with the glass.
The bulbs are 15mm equal pin bayonet with 2 contacts.
B15D style I believe. 1 contact is for dipped beam and the other for main (dipped stays on).
The LED ones were on eBay intended for British motorbikes and things and were a straight fit.
Something to note on this type of headlight is that it’s important to focus the beam.
You do this by moving the bulb in relation to the reflector.
Modern bulbs, even the non-LED ones are physically smaller than they used to be.
I had to make a longer spring to get the bulb holder out far enough, luckily the adjusting screw was long enough.
The beam should be focused on a surface 10/15’ away, without the glass, down to the smallest possible spot. It may well start as a thin halo which is why the lights are often so comically bad on this type of car.
Not a marked difference on the camera but the whiter light is much better in reality.
No dramas on the commute here today, I’ve more or less got the wiper sorted but I’ll update when it’s in and working.
Ali
The LED headlight bulbs arrived so I fitted them.
A 15 second job on this car if you take your time. There’s a spring loaded clip on the bottom of light unit, release it and the rim comes off with the glass.
The bulbs are 15mm equal pin bayonet with 2 contacts.
B15D style I believe. 1 contact is for dipped beam and the other for main (dipped stays on).
The LED ones were on eBay intended for British motorbikes and things and were a straight fit.
Something to note on this type of headlight is that it’s important to focus the beam.
You do this by moving the bulb in relation to the reflector.
Modern bulbs, even the non-LED ones are physically smaller than they used to be.
I had to make a longer spring to get the bulb holder out far enough, luckily the adjusting screw was long enough.
The beam should be focused on a surface 10/15’ away, without the glass, down to the smallest possible spot. It may well start as a thin halo which is why the lights are often so comically bad on this type of car.
Not a marked difference on the camera but the whiter light is much better in reality.
No dramas on the commute here today, I’ve more or less got the wiper sorted but I’ll update when it’s in and working.
Ali
stevieturbo
RMS Regular
I'd have had a new engine/box in it already lol
Crazy stuff for a daily driver. It definitely won't be easy !
What's the heater etc like for this cold weather ? demister ?
Crazy stuff for a daily driver. It definitely won't be easy !
What's the heater etc like for this cold weather ? demister ?
- Thread Starter
- #72
I think the car would have had a vacuum operated one originally, it’s since been fitted with an electric one.
No heater
There’s a bit of heat soak from the running gear once it’s warmed up but not much.
I leave the windscreen open a bit to stop it steaming up.
Ali
that’s what i did i took out the flat head 4 cylinder and put in a cavalier sri 2.0 8 valve
stevieturbo
RMS Regular
No heater
There’s a bit of heat soak from the running gear once it’s warmed up but not much.
I leave the windscreen open a bit to stop it steaming up.
Ali
Not a f'in chance in this weather !!!! lol...hell, even in summer here it'd be a stretch with no heater.
