EVANI members support pay-to-charge and we have been lobbying ESB to turn this on for a long time. A free network (even a crumbling one) also puts off other companies from entering the NI market - how do you compete with free?
Any electric car drivers on here?
- Thread starter Ciaran
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Totally agree, the existence of free chargers makes it rather hard for other pay to use suppliers to enter the market. Most it seems are happy to pay ESB but it’s a bit chicken and egg as they need to provide a decent service for people to feel it’s worth paying for.
svensktoppen
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There is very little revenue in charging, otherwise everyone would be setting up shop.
There has been a big increase in chargers, but it's not keeping up with the increase in tax-subsidised EV.
The cost isn't in buying the charger. Or even in buying/leasing land to put it on.
The cost is in getting enough power to it.
Outside major urban centres there simply isn't enough electricity infra to put in a load of chargers. No point having a dozen chargers if the supply can only actually feed one or two of them at a time. One car charging and all is good. Get a few at the same time and you'll only get a trickle each.
Upgrading supply infra is hugely expensive, all the way back to power stations.
The "free" chargers try to go around that by making local councils kickstart it all using tax payer money. But there's not an awful lot of that around either, and no politician is going to put up taxes for everyone to pay for electricity for the few.
Tesla got closest by using their marketing budget to build charging infra. But they too are now looking at opening that up to other makes to try to recoup and share costs.
And all this while the number of EV is still only a tiny percentage of the total vehicles on the road.
EV has always been a problem of scale.
Not batteries, or range, or motors, or anything else.
Scale.
There has been a big increase in chargers, but it's not keeping up with the increase in tax-subsidised EV.
The cost isn't in buying the charger. Or even in buying/leasing land to put it on.
The cost is in getting enough power to it.
Outside major urban centres there simply isn't enough electricity infra to put in a load of chargers. No point having a dozen chargers if the supply can only actually feed one or two of them at a time. One car charging and all is good. Get a few at the same time and you'll only get a trickle each.
Upgrading supply infra is hugely expensive, all the way back to power stations.
The "free" chargers try to go around that by making local councils kickstart it all using tax payer money. But there's not an awful lot of that around either, and no politician is going to put up taxes for everyone to pay for electricity for the few.
Tesla got closest by using their marketing budget to build charging infra. But they too are now looking at opening that up to other makes to try to recoup and share costs.
And all this while the number of EV is still only a tiny percentage of the total vehicles on the road.
EV has always been a problem of scale.
Not batteries, or range, or motors, or anything else.
Scale.
Rocko
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There's £20m EU Level Up money to spend, and they're not spending it. It's literally sitting there.
svensktoppen
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Do we have anyone in Stormont who could spend anything at the moment anyway? Isn't it all shut down again by DUP over Brexit? The Brexit they themselves campaigned for? Or something 
Even assuming that money isn't earmarked for something else.
£20m sounds like a lot but it's a wee in the ocean for infra.
Even assuming that money isn't earmarked for something else.
£20m sounds like a lot but it's a wee in the ocean for infra.
svensktoppen
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At the moment that's the only realistic option for a lot of people unless you enjoy spending a lot of time sat in service stations. That, and getting it on salary sacrifice with no BIC, which in itself excludes a lot of people.
But if you tick the home charge and salary sacrifice boxes then it's a complete no-brainer. It's basically free. Especially for higher rate tax payers.
But if you tick the home charge and salary sacrifice boxes then it's a complete no-brainer. It's basically free. Especially for higher rate tax payers.
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Rocko
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Do we have anyone in Stormont who could spend anything at the moment anyway? Isn't it all shut down again by DUP over Brexit? The Brexit they themselves campaigned for? Or something
Even assuming that money isn't earmarked for something else.
£20m sounds like a lot but it's a wee in the ocean for infra.
Know what's less than £20m? £0, which is what they've spent.
stevieturbo
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You could argue the same for most services here. And the entire population do not drive EV's, so a silly statistic to try and use.
Easy...make them available and accessible.
Doesn't matter if something is free.....if you cannot access it.
Private healthcare is booming....NHS is "free"
Rocko
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The entire population of Scotland, Wales and England don't drive them either.
stevieturbo
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There is very little revenue....or profit in fuel too at the retailers end. But they're everywhere because the market needs it.
If they can sell enough quantity, the market is viable...then it will happen
Glasgow alone isn't far off the population of Northern Ireland. I wonder where those chargers all are ? Are they all in rural Scotland, or inside the cities. The stat is irrelevant.
It's a bit like when that muppet saying Northern Ireland has more hospitals per head than England etc. Perhaps....but smaller hospitals that can treat less people, and spread over a wide area that people cannot actually get too easily.
So it's just a stupid statistic to try and use to justify anything
Rocko
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Irrelevant where they are, NI is lagging behind in having them full stop.
stevieturbo
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So if they installed 100 in Fermanagh...would that help your plight ? and it would bring the stats up.
Get a few pay charge points installed outside your work ? Might be profitable and viable ?
Rocko
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Are they likely to install all 100 in Fermanagh? Are all the Scottish ones in the Highlands? Don't be silly.
Coog
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Was funny the first time in fairness.
NickR
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Thats pretty poor to be fair. It would be interesting to see the same breakdown of EVs per 100k people per area to see if the uptake in EVs is the same across the board.
Mark Irwin
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So much for Stormont encouraging people to use public transport to protect the environment. My wife was taking my teenage daughter and her friends to Belfast today for a birthday treat. The Dungannon bus station did have a booth open to pay for tickets and the bus driver could not accept cards. They therefore had to miss that bus to run over to Tescos to get cash. What other so-called developed country would do things this way particularly when we have been encouraged to use cards during Covid?
stevieturbo
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No, they're probably in cities with a million or more people. Not comparable to NI as that's being silly using those stats
In no way does public transport protect the environment
Why would they not accept cards ? Systems down ? EU sanctions ? other ? Does seem odd...when cash is apparently evil.
Rocko
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OK Stevie, you know best. What EV is it you have?
Shmern
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What way do you suggest presenting the stats, based on per 100k population seems fair, regardless how you look at it being Scotland has roughly 12x more charge points than Northern Ireland, Scotland have spent ~£40m on their infrastructure in preparation for 2030, NI has spent ~£360k, Im not sure what you point here is. Do you think there should be more chargers or not?
As for scale, National Grid has already confirmed generation can cope with the demand, even at the most advanced scenario, you are right in some ways though that local grid reinforcement for high power to the 50kW/100kW plus sites, this is normal, the issue in Northern Ireland is the entire cost formthat is passed to the person/company requesting, in ALL other jurisdictions this is not the case, the Regulator has remit for decarbonisation and therefore provide assistance in this area, Typically costs in GB and Ireland are 40% of what they are in NI. NI Utility Regulator doesnt have decarbonisation as part of its remit currently, so can't resolve this, DfI and DfE need to change this, UR are open to it, NIEN (who are responsible for those connections) are open to it, Stormont continue to sit on their hands, the recently annonuced Energy Strategy is disappointing in its scope and ambitions.
Not sure I (and many others agree), active travel, followed by efficient and effective (and affordable) Public transport are very effective in protecting the environment, so investments in these areas are very welcome, However with 83% of travel in NI by car, and with 2030 just over 7 years away, investment in the Public charging infrastructure is vital and urgent. But as ever progress in NI is glacial.
So what are your thoughts on what needs to happen, rather than just pointing out what you see as problems ?
Ghost
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Didn't see the first one, in fairness.
stevieturbo
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None, I can run a handful of ICE cars for a fraction of the price.
As others alluded, spending £50k to save money.....not so much sense
Coog
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Anyone spending 50k on a EV will be spending it on ICEV. Or maybe 40k on ICEV and budgeting the additional 10k on Tax or fuel or whatever. You don’t decide one day that you’re no longer going to run a £1500 diesel but instead spend 50 grand on a Tesla. That argument is pretty silly and has been repeated on here about a dozen times already.
I’d be surprised if anyone is actually paying £50k either. Most are through company schemes with low BIK tax. So not only do you get a better equipped and significantly quicker car for the same or less outlay but it’s also quite cheap to run. I went from a 150bhp diesel Tiguan to an Etron. The Tiguan was more per month before we even get into maintenance, fuel, etc.
Unfortunately or fortunately whatever way you look at it; I’ve little choice either. I either sort a newish car myself, take one from the list (probably an insignia or a bmw 314i or whatever) or decline the car allowance altogether.
It doesn’t work for all. Not everyone gets an allowance or access to a scheme, but I’d wager the majority of EVs on the road are through such schemes.
I’d be surprised if anyone is actually paying £50k either. Most are through company schemes with low BIK tax. So not only do you get a better equipped and significantly quicker car for the same or less outlay but it’s also quite cheap to run. I went from a 150bhp diesel Tiguan to an Etron. The Tiguan was more per month before we even get into maintenance, fuel, etc.
Unfortunately or fortunately whatever way you look at it; I’ve little choice either. I either sort a newish car myself, take one from the list (probably an insignia or a bmw 314i or whatever) or decline the car allowance altogether.
It doesn’t work for all. Not everyone gets an allowance or access to a scheme, but I’d wager the majority of EVs on the road are through such schemes.