Should road racing on closed public roads continue?

[davyk31]

I don't get the addicted and its in their blood thing. That makes it sound like they really have no option but to go and race to feed their feelings. Plenty of people have addictions, some can quit and some can't but it's always the choice of the individual that decides the outcome. Faced the thought of the high risk of death and leaving a grieving family behind and never seeing kids grow up would sure be enough for me to decide what I need to give up. There are successful road racers who decided enough was enough and got out while they were still alive and they are the wise ones. Maybe for a young guy with no dependent or responsibility it can be justified in his mind although he also may have a mother, father and siblings alive who would be devasted if something happened.

Just tragic and hate to think this carnage can continue. Also shouldn't take a big name fatality to restart this type of debate, the life of any rider whoever they are is precious.

 

[Mark_C]

Mark I'm not getting at you in anyway but reading your post made me think, off topic but I'll continue anyway.

Civilised society allow millions to die because of poverty and starvation but because no-one can make money off them it's accepted, tolerated and ignored !!
Doesn't say alot for civilised society !!

Back on topic, yes I believe road racing should continue the same debate surrounds boxing too.

Cheers

I agree with you on that alright, in this instance it's a real quick fix to push it to tracks is all.

 

[Chris666]

Dan Kneen and Adam Lyons families BOTH endorsed the continuation of racing at the TT, his brother Ryan even rode a parade lap wearing his spare helmet. The Dunlops endorsed racing going ahead today at Skerries as they did at the 2008 NW200 where William and Michael were effectively banned from competing.. They forced their way onto the grid and ran anyway with Michael winning!

I've just read that like in 2008 with Robert, Michael was behind William on the road..

This is that very win.. Give it a watch

 

[chris_b]

As said unless someone on here is a road racer themselves I really don’t understand how anyone else can have the right to ban it.

They know all to well when they go they might not come back ever again as do the families.

Doesn’t detract for one second how tragic each and every fatality is and I can’t begin to imagine what the poor Dunlop family, and that of others of course must be going through.

If it ever does receive a full ban never to happen again I very much hope it’s the decision of those who take part in it and the families of those who have lost loved ones, no one else.

 

[RevT]

It’s going to get to the point when we’ll have to be wrapped up in cotton wool to go out of the house.

I say let people do what they want as long as it’s legal. They’re enjoying it and we are all going to die at some point anyway.

Alot of us will go through life and never once feel the thrill that these people get during their races, that’s slightly embarassing and makes you think how boring life can be for ‘normal’ people. Do what makes you happy and hopefully the PC bullsh*t is left out of this for once.

p.s. I’m not even into motorbikes or racing, however I hate people complaining and potentially ruining things for anyone that’s interested in something like this when they have nothing to do with it in the first place.

 

[Big Pimp]

If you think it’s too soon for a poll, I’d tune out of Nolan in the morning.

I’d guess it’ll be hectic!

 

[Chris666]

If you think it’s too soon for a poll, I’d tune out of Nolan in the morning.

I’d guess it’ll be hectic!

Imagine if they tried to ban hose pipes

 

[brendy]

It's a tough one, on one hand it's a sport, an attraction and tourism magnet. On the other hand it's a killer, it rips families apart leaving children without their daddies, grandad etc.
No man should ever feel that motorbike racing is their only means of making ends meet, that's a bull**** excuse.
On the other hand, the exhilaration, the camaraderie and the fame make it a real attraction especially if you have some talent.

As I said it's a tough one but there are more issues to look into beyond the racer and his family should the worst happen. His mistake could cost someone else's life too and amongst other things, the bystanders will be scarred for life, the medical costs for this unnecessary injury/fatality also has a drain on already low NHS resources etc.
I wouldn't ban road racing but I would seriously look at the routes used and top speeds not just pad out lamposts etc as mechanical failures can happen anywhere so every corner, kerb,verge,fence and spectator area would need to be examined before authorising it.

 

[Chris Mac]

Totally up to those involved to continue or move on.

Not a topic for those outside the sport/politicians/tree huggers to get involved in, unless it becomes a matter for public safety (residents/spectators etc)

 

[VEN©M]

Geez. This is a really tough one to answer. You get people who aren't in to motorsport, don't watch it and have never thrown their leg over a motorcycle watch the news, see the triple digit speeds through built up areas with hazards galore, then see the fatalities and think it's absolute madness - their immediate thought is 'how on earth is this allowed to happen?'. It's high speed motorcycle racing and accidents and crashes are bound to happen, but plenty of races are completed without major issue. The high profile (almost infamous) nature of road racing, may skew our perception. I don't know the stats, but how does roadracing measure up against other sports in terms of injury or fatalities? A quick search shows a few sources citing gymnastics, horse-riding, rugby right up there in terms of injuries. Granted, the IOM TT is up there.

A few have mentioned that the riders know what they're doing when they throw their leg on the bike and enter these road races, but that is an oversimplification. Riding a motorcycle at speed on the limit is just about one of the most addictive and visceral experiences out there. I imagine that full-on racing on closed public roads is even more incredible than on the track. I did motorcycle track days for 3 years before some friends convinced me to get my racing license. In 3 years of literally hundreds of track days i had only one minor lowside on cold tyres (basically a tip-over), i could ride fast, but smart and knew when to dial it back, i also always had in the back of my mind that wrecking the bike and myself wasn't an option as i had a family and work commitments. Then i gridded up at Willow Springs International Raceway and everything changed and taking risks was nothing and high speed crashes and injuries ensued (amidst some truly epic racing). Motorcycle racing and an ultra-competitve nature took over. I caught myself on and got out but i'll admit, it was 90% the cost of fixing the bike and replacing racing gear as opposed to leaving my wife widowed and family heart-broken if the next crash was the one. I got into XC mountain biking, got my thrills and 99% of the time when i fell off, i got back up and kept pedaling.

Racing is different and i'm not sure the riders themselves are fully tuned in or perhaps their love of the sport desensitises them to the consequences of when it all goes wrong and I know for a fact that none of them are thinking about the 'what-ifs' when they are ripping around these courses, dosed up with adrenaline and endorphins to the eyeballs. I just struggle to understand how the families of deceased motorcycle racers seem to cope with tragedy as if its par for the course.....of course the riders died doing what they love, but wouldn't you rather your significant other did something they didn't quite love as much but that pretty much guaranteed they were still around to grow old with their wife (or husband) or watch their children grow? The roadracing family/paddock are a tough unusual breed. I admit, it's amazing to watch but i'll not be doing it but i'm happy to watch other braver (foolish?) people do it.

If we banned everything that carried risk of injury or death, lets face it, a lot of cool stuff would disappear, television and youtube would be a lot less interesting.

 

[stevieturbo]

No I'm not, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. Motorcycle racing does have speed cameras!

Not to penalise the riders though !

Government gets involved and interferes with all aspects of life, sometimes even proclaiming to be in our better interests as a whole...so it's a little surprising a tougher stance hasnt been taken on the racing.
But people do get killed in sports all over the world, people die at Marathons etc. Just not quite with the same regularity and such few numbers actually taking part.

Of course when people die in accidents at work, all hell breaks loose with the HSE etc......which almost seems a little odd these sort of pass by when the racing is their work.

But true, we all die sometime so may as well go out in style at some point. But it's sad that some of them think the racing is more important than their children having a father etc. That's gotta be a tough decision on risk to take.

Sure maybe that track at Coalisland they could build it in a road style but with large run offs...be a first in a new generation of tracks !

 

[S2K-Aaron]

Not even remotely close...and the stats tell that. The risks on a circuit are far far less than any road race, much of which is no doubt the appeal to the road racers.

Circuits are wide open, bland, less of a thrill, less of a challenge compared to any road race. And there's very little to hit at a circuit compared to the roads.

That's exactly why road racers race on the road. That thrill of passing a wall or hedge at 180+mph.

They don't get that on a short circuit.

It's always been dangerous and will never change but I feel like there's something we can do to make it safer. No idea what that is tho.

 

[Chris666]

Not to penalise the riders though !

Government gets involved and interferes with all aspects of life, sometimes even proclaiming to be in our better interests as a whole...so it's a little surprising a tougher stance hasnt been taken on the racing.
But people do get killed in sports all over the world, people die at Marathons etc. Just not quite with the same regularity and such few numbers actually taking part.

Of course when people die in accidents at work, all hell breaks loose with the HSE etc......which almost seems a little odd these sort of pass by when the racing is their work.

But true, we all die sometime so may as well go out in style at some point. But it's sad that some of them think the racing is more important than their children having a father etc. That's gotta be a tough decision on risk to take.

Sure maybe that track at Coalisland they could build it in a road style but with large run offs...be a first in a new generation of tracks !

Riders are heavily penalised for speeding lol

 

[Blackie]

Not even remotely close...and the stats tell that. The risks on a circuit are far far less than any road race, much of which is no doubt the appeal to the road racers.

Circuits are wide open, bland, less of a thrill, less of a challenge compared to any road race. And there's very little to hit at a circuit compared to the roads.

Forget stats, the point is death by motorsport, that’s my interpretation of the thread. Deaths still can and do happen on circuits, regardless of how the stats add up.

 

[scub]

So on the back of the tragic news this weekend I’m asking the question to gauge opinion on this, there was some discussion in a couple of other threads but I feel the issue deserves a thread of its own.

as a point of principle - absolutely not.
freedom of choice.

 

[surprising_skoda]

Civilised society allow millions to die because of poverty and starvation but because no-one can make money off them it's accepted, tolerated and ignored !!
Doesn't say alot for civilised society !!

Define civilised.


Racing started out on roads. Car racing was done on roads and their were high speed events like the Mille Miglia and others, and various hillclimbs and sprints especially in this country. Then you had the pre-war Grand Prix racing and famous events like the Tourist Trophy around Ards which famously went through the middle of Ards square, until a car rolled and 11 people died. Post-war events started to move away from roads and on to tracks - in part because of a great number of disused airstrips, but also because the speeds increased. [NB I'm talking about multiple car on track racing. I'm aware of single car closed road event racing (rallying, sprints, hillclimbs and more).]
Motorcycle racing was exactly the same, but we are left with the last vestiges of a bygone era now.
I'm not saying one way or another, as I love the TT and NW, but abhor the carnage - but, I honestly think, that the historical issue is that road racing was perhaps - not safer, it was never, ever safe - but more tolerable, when the speeds were lower.
For example:
1950 Senior TT: 1 Geoff Duke Norton 92.37 mph
1970 Senior TT: 1 Giacomo Agostini Italy MV Agusta 101.52 mph
2005 Senior TT: 1 John McGuinness Yamaha R1 124.342 mph
2014 Senior TT: 1 Michael Dunlop BMW 1000cc 128.680 mph
Which is just a little example to explain how the speeds have increased dramatically from when these events were first run. The problem, in my view, doesn't lie in whether the riders want to do it or should be allowed to do it, but whether the road-based circuit can support the speeds that the bikes are doing these days. It was dicey enough 50 years ago, and the bikes are lapping a third, if not a full 50% faster.

 

[Brennan]

Forget stats, the point is death by motorsport, that’s my interpretation of the thread. Deaths still can and do happen on circuits, regardless of how the stats add up.

Death by bikes is more frequent than any other form of motorsport. When was the last time you heard anyone die in F1/F3, BTCC, Rallying etc.

 

[davyk31]

Remember how rallying had to reinvent itself after cars got way too fast with people being killed. They just made it slower and the sport still succeeded.

 

[scub]

yes but technology moved on with the speed surely ?
better brakes chassis design etc means that it's probably a lot safer doing 130 on today's bike than 90 on an old 1.
besides anything over 30mph is potentially lethal in a car never mind a bike..

 

[Brennan]

yes but technology moved on with the speed surely ?
better brakes chassis design etc means that it's probably a lot safer doing 130 on today's bike than 90 on an old 1.
besides anything over 30mph is potentially lethal in a car never mind a bike..

It’s never safe to do 130, but I’d rather do it in an F1 car on a track than on a bike on a public twisty road

 

[scub]

Death by bikes is more frequent than any other form of motorsport. When was the last time you heard anyone die in F1/F3, BTCC, Rallying etc.

you're having a laugh aren't you?
max bianci the girl test driver who lost her leg & the upcoming kid who lost both legs. all in F1 in the last couple of years.. & Robert kubitsa just before that..

 

[Brennan]

you're having a laugh aren't you?
max bianci the girl test driver who lost her leg & the upcoming kid who lost both legs. all in F1 in the last couple of years.. & Robert kubitsa just before that..

I’m no health expert but aren’t they still alive even though they have lost their legs, yes it’s terrible they were injured like that but the key point here is they are still alive. Would they have been alive if they had the same accident on a bike? Probably not

 

[scub]

I’m no health expert but aren’t they still alive even though they have lost their legs, yes it’s terrible they were injured like that but the key point here is they are still alive. Would they have been alive if they had the same accident on a bike? Probably not

you don't need to be a doctor to recognise that losing 1 or more limbs might impact negatively on the quality of life you can expect.

 

[j44nty]

I think we are near the end of an era with public road bike racing regardless of how much enjoyment riders and spectators get from it. Should of been banned years ago when bikes started to get far to fast for the circuit safety to handle. Sadly I think it will take a large accident involving the wider public be that spectators for this to come to an end.

 

[Brennan]

you don't need to be a doctor to recognise that losing 1 or more limbs might impact negatively on the quality of life you can expect.

I think the fact we can take away from this is that even though disabled they can learn to come to terms with it and enjoy life, rather than being, well, dead.