Solar Panels and Home Battery

[Ace_vaux]

Our iboost is on flat out at the minute and getting 70 degree water at the taps. So in theory it would work if it’s not hydraulically separated (which id be surprised if it wasn’t as it would mean you have no inhibitor in your radiator circuit etc.)

 

[Ged]

Thats awesome, i think they are kept separate using a coil of copper hose in the immersion.
Something like this.

Doing some googling though I think I've found what I was looking, something like this would work along with running the circulation pump.

Must get onto the plumber and see what he thinks. Would be nice to just keep the house at a nice temperature. I deliberately oversized the solar so I could get a fair amount of power in the winter. I'll still be importing but I don't mind that.

 

[stevieturbo]

The internal coil on the DHW tank would be extremely inefficient for trying to heat the water in reverse so to speak

But there's probably no reason you couldn't set up a tank linked to the heating with immersion type heaters in them. If you've 3 phase, a pair of 9kw elements would give a decent amount I'd think.
Whether you'd need to isolate this system from the actual heating with a plate heat exchanger or you could do it directly ( doubt the elements will like anything other than very clean water ) is another matter.

Then if there was not enough electric to do any real heating, the heat exchanger could be isolated and run off the normal boiler etc.

Although all of that would be fairly expensive I'd think

 

[Ged]

The internal coil on the DHW tank would be extremely inefficient for trying to heat the water in reverse so to speak

But there's probably no reason you couldn't set up a tank linked to the heating with immersion type heaters in them. If you've 3 phase, a pair of 9kw elements would give a decent amount I'd think.
Whether you'd need to isolate this system from the actual heating with a plate heat exchanger or you could do it directly ( doubt the elements will like anything other than very clean water ) is another matter.

Then if there was not enough electric to do any real heating, the heat exchanger could be isolated and run off the normal boiler etc.

Although all of that would be fairly expensive I'd think

@Ace_vaux @stevieturbo Cheers for the replys, aye I kinda figured that, at the moment im running a fairly big condesing oil boiler, it only comes on in the morning and night for an hour, Which id like to keep for when it gets proper cold.

I was hoping to get a nice steady heat out of something and just let it run away I imagine my current heating system should be "clean" enough for that type of heater no? or are they just fussy?

A tank with a couple of elements might just be the job ive pleanty of room in the emersion cuboard for another one the heating circuit gets up there somehow.

Would a normal plumber be able to look into what I want or will I need someone with a bit of PV experience?

Cheers,
Ged

 

[Petem86]

Does anyone know what this meter would be that they are talking about?
I just have a SolaX x1 inverter and added the dongle last night.

thanks

 

[Ace_vaux]

@Ace_vaux @stevieturbo Cheers for the replys, aye I kinda figured that, at the moment im running a fairly big condesing oil boiler, it only comes on in the morning and night for an hour, Which id like to keep for when it gets proper cold.

I was hoping to get a nice steady heat out of something and just let it run away I imagine my current heating system should be "clean" enough for that type of heater no? or are they just fussy?

A tank with a couple of elements might just be the job ive pleanty of room in the emersion cuboard for another one the heating circuit gets up there somehow.

Would a normal plumber be able to look into what I want or will I need someone with a bit of PV experience?

Cheers,
Ged

A normal plumber should be able to manage it as they connect the iboost into the existing immersion circuit. However as Stevie said the heat produced wouldn’t be adequate to heat a full radiator system. It would take forever to get to up a decent temperature. You’d also need to put diverting valves in to switch between electric heating and oil boiler heat.

Also the iboost only uses the ‘left over electric’ so it fluctuates from 0.01kw to 3.6kw so it’s never constant.

The theory is good but practicality is a bit more difficult

 

[VinR]

Would an electric storage heater wired in to " left over electric" work as a supplementary heat source. Obviously not in a normal domestic setup, but in @Ged's setup.

 

[RallyCiaran]

What about a heat battery rather than trying to heat the water?
Put the excess electricity into the battery, than you call out the heat on demand. I don't know much about plumbing but it would seem like one could be built into a wet radiator system.

Compact thermal energy storage for hot water, heating & cooling - Sunamp Global

Thermal energy storage solutions that make homes, buildings & vehicles more energy-efficient & sustainable while reducing carbon emissions.

sunamp.com

 

[Ace_vaux]

Would an electric storage heater wired in to " left over electric" work as a supplementary heat source. Obviously not in a normal domestic setup, but in @Ged's setup.

In theory yes, use the iboost to heat the storage heater when it has available electric.

You’d be limited to how many storage heaters you could heat at once tho.

What about a heat battery rather than trying to heat the water?
Put the excess electricity into the battery, than you call out the heat on demand. I don't know much about plumbing but it would seem like one could be built into a wet radiator system.

Compact thermal energy storage for hot water, heating & cooling - Sunamp Global

Thermal energy storage solutions that make homes, buildings & vehicles more energy-efficient & sustainable while reducing carbon emissions.

sunamp.com

From a quick read I think they are talking about a heater battery as in a heat exchanger like in an air handling unit and not a storage battery for electric. But again it would store some heat to be used on demand.


There are a load of options and I don’t know which is the best solution for heating for free. I’ve seen solar vacuum tubes used for LTHW but it has a limit to max temp. Also air source heat pumps are a good source to run off free PV electric - but they are only effective in modern houses with a really good epc.

 

[chrisd]

You can get a wall hung electric boiler it's the same sorta size as the gas wall hung units it would be mounted near the existing oil boiler and piped in accordingly.

They are mainly seen/used in home indoor swimming pool setups and require a 3 phase supply but they don't really last and they are quite inefficient as its simply on or off. A heat pump might be a better idea?

 

[stevieturbo]

@Ace_vaux @stevieturbo Cheers for the replys, aye I kinda figured that, at the moment im running a fairly big condesing oil boiler, it only comes on in the morning and night for an hour, Which id like to keep for when it gets proper cold.

I was hoping to get a nice steady heat out of something and just let it run away I imagine my current heating system should be "clean" enough for that type of heater no? or are they just fussy?

A tank with a couple of elements might just be the job ive pleanty of room in the emersion cuboard for another one the heating circuit gets up there somehow.

Would a normal plumber be able to look into what I want or will I need someone with a bit of PV experience?

Cheers,
Ged

Even with drinking/tap waster systems, I've seen multiple immersion elements **** themselves after days/weeks due to the water. So they can be very very fussy.

I'm sure there is a solution out there where electricity can be used to boost the heating at home...just not sure what the best way would be.

Either that, or just install a few large electric infrared heaters in some rooms where you might want more consistent heat ? Although that'd involve wiring etc but fairly simple other than that.

You can get a wall hung electric boiler it's the same sorta size as the gas wall hung units it would be mounted near the existing oil boiler and piped in accordingly.

They are mainly seen/used in home indoor swimming pool setups and require a 3 phase supply but they don't really last and they are quite inefficient as its simply on or off. A heat pump might be a better idea?

A guy in work who has installed and commissioned a load of heat pumps....in general, he says they are utter *****.

Although I guess if you looked at it as a form of booster, and you could truly power them off free electric....they might not be totally useless ? But as standalone heating he says they are just crap. They do not work here.

 

[mark19]

Even with drinking/tap waster systems, I've seen multiple immersion elements **** themselves after days/weeks due to the water. So they can be very very fussy.

I'm sure there is a solution out there where electricity can be used to boost the heating at home...just not sure what the best way would be.

Either that, or just install a few large electric infrared heaters in some rooms where you might want more consistent heat ? Although that'd involve wiring etc but fairly simple other than that.


A guy in work who has installed and commissioned a load of heat pumps....in general, he says they are utter *****.

Although I guess if you looked at it as a form of booster, and you could truly power them off free electric....they might not be totally useless ? But as standalone heating he says they are just crap. They do not work here.

i find that people who say ground source air pumps are **** tbh don't have a clue what they are talking about lol

 

[Ace_vaux]

i find that people who say ground source air pumps are **** tbh don't have a clue what they are talking about lol

So Tell me more about ground source air pumps…..

Are they a new hybrid between GSHP and ASHP?

 

[mark19]

So Tell me more about ground source air pumps…..

Are they a new hybrid between GSHP and ASHP?

Ah shows not to write message on medical medication

 

[Petem86]

Evening!

So I got this meter for what's needed to tell the inverter via a network cable what's being imported/exported so it gives a better indication of what I'm using from the solar etc.

Just looking to see if anyone can confirm where it goes in the main board?

Does it sit between the normal meter and the isco? Or after the isco and before the consumer unit?

I'm swaying towards the meter and isco, sinc will be measuring what's flowing in which direction. Thoughts?

 

[chrisd]

Evening!

So I got this meter for what's needed to tell the inverter via a network cable what's being imported/exported so it gives a better indication of what I'm using from the solar etc.

Just looking to see if anyone can confirm where it goes in the main board?

Does it sit between the normal meter and the isco? Or after the isco and before the consumer unit?

I'm swaying towards the meter and isco, sinc will be measuring what's flowing in which direction. Thoughts?

View attachment 360650View attachment 360651

That actually looks like the wee screen modules that go into consumer units now. Ive seen them a few times neat wee things think youll need a set of ct clamps too.

You'll need a spark to fit that into the board hopefully there's room on the Consumer unit for it.

 

[VEN©M]

Using solar to juice the central heating system would definitely require something much more powerful than an immersion. If your boiler runs for an hour it generates 15-40 kW during that time to heat the house (depending on boiler size), an immersion heating element (3kW) might heat an insulated sealed hot water cylinder no problem, but likely won't get radiators on a central heating loop off the ground, even over many hours.

You could convert a series of radiators in the house to dual fuel to run off the electric and central system. If strategically placed, they might heat the important parts of the house and you can always top off with central heat if it's too cold. if you had enough of them on the system, you might be able to run the central heating pump and heat the rest of the rads to some extent, even just warm enough to trickle heat over several hours.

 

[Petem86]

That actually looks like the wee screen modules that go into consumer units now. Ive seen them a few times neat wee things think youll need a set of ct clamps too.

You'll need a spark to fit that into the board hopefully there's room on the Consumer unit for it.

Yea it is but it can be screwed to the wall aswell. So does that mean it goes in between the isco and the consumer unit? The instructions are very vague and just say the live in comes from grid but not where to fit it.

No clamps on this one, I have seen those ones actually but this is the one that comes with the kit if you but it that way

 

[Ace_vaux]

Yea it is but it can be screwed to the wall aswell. So does that mean it goes in between the isco and the consumer unit? The instructions are very vague and just say the live in comes from grid but not where to fit it.

No clamps on this one, I have seen those ones actually but this is the one that comes with the kit if you but it that way

You could mount it between the esco and the consumer unit. It would have the 80/100a incoming fuse as protection.

But You may need to pull the main incoming fuse and get NIE to recrimp if you are planning to fit that as there is may not be an isolation switch after the meter and before the board and working live is a balls to do!!

 

[Petem86]

@Ace_vaux obviously im not a spark, but putting it there would it measure the flow going out the door? or does it not need to to get the export value?

 

[Ace_vaux]

@Ace_vaux obviously im not a spark, but putting it there would it measure the flow going out the door? or does it not need to to get the export value?

I’m not 100% sure how yours does work.

I have an iboost ct clamped on my incoming cable at the point I just said and it is able to pick up when there is zero flow into the house from the grid and it starts the Iboost. Then when it hits the thermal cutout it back feeds to grid.

Assuming the meter you have can pick up directional flow then it just needs to be between the meter and the esco as it will not miss out on what’s flowing in or out.

Does it have two readings? One for flow in and flow out?

 

[Petem86]

Assuming the meter you have can pick up directional flow then it just needs to be between the meter and the esco as it will not miss out on what’s flowing in or out.

Does it have two readings? One for flow in and flow out?

Haven't been able to start it up yet, but yea its bi directional, which would make me think, as you say, it could go between meter and esco.
I just cant find anything conclusive! lol

 

[chrisd]

I'm unsure of the fitting of it if I'm honest. All I know is our meter was changed from the disc type to the wee white digital one that gives 2 readings.....units used and units exported to grid and then there's a separate generation meter with a sim card between the inverter and the consumer unit in our setup

I'd be asking your installer or an electrician about that wee one you have

 

[Petem86]

I'm unsure of the fitting of it if I'm honest. All I know is our meter was changed from the disc type to the wee white digital one that gives 2 readings.....units used and units exported to grid and then there's a separate generation meter with a sim card between the inverter and the consumer unit in our setup

I'd be asking your installer or an electrician about that wee one you have

yea, just where it fits is the issue, i know its the right one for my inverter.
I've a few spark mates so hoping one of them can call and have a look

 

[Ace_vaux]

I'm unsure of the fitting of it if I'm honest. All I know is our meter was changed from the disc type to the wee white digital one that gives 2 readings.....units used and units exported to grid and then there's a separate generation meter with a sim card between the inverter and the consumer unit in our setup

I'd be asking your installer or an electrician about that wee one you have

That’s the NIE specific meter you’re referencing which you cannot change as it’s NIE property.

The meter above would be in addition to the NIE meter. I assume(?) it would show live data of actual current draw or something to make it worth fitting in line.

Other than that I don’t see any benefit to it over the NIE one which has two readings. One T for received from grid. And one R for returned to grid. The return one usually sits at zero for everyone unless you have a PV which exports