Spar Crash Lisburn

[azzamut]

I think he reacted just fine, looks to try go around the Dacia but for the woman on the path so he choose to do some window shopping.

what is correct police procedure in a case like this?

I assume they must have known there were no pedestrians in the way... and if there was do they just hit the vehicle?

if they had kept turning left, less damage would have been caused.

 

[Rocko]

Keep turning left and they still hit the shop, trolleys and the parked car.

 

[Ian A]

what is correct police procedure in a case like this?

I assume they must have known there were no pedestrians in the way... and if there was do they just hit the vehicle?

if they had kept turning left, less damage would have been caused.

Procedure means little, that was pure human reaction.

 

[purplea4T]

Wonder just how much of an emergency the situation they were responding to was. Last month a marked police car came barrelling down the Falls road at 12.50am on a Friday night/Saturday morning at easily 80mph with the blue lights on and no siren. Straight through the red lights at the top of Broadway narrowly missing crowds of people who were waiting on taxis. Had anyone stepped in front of the car it was game over. It was the most wreckless piece of driving I've seen in years. Not excusing the Dacia driver, but was there a necessity for the police to be travelling at what is obviously excessive speed in a built up area?

All 999 calls are responded to on blues, sometimes there's a need for a quick response without horns on, ie burglary with persons on scene.
Would you like police to attend calls at 30/40/national speed limit?
Police drivers are well trained, and also dealt with like any other person if there is any indication of wrong doing, as well as being data monitored at all times.
Longstone St is a straight piece of road so if you can miss a full liveried police car with alternating headlights, front grill strobes and full light bar, you shouldn't be on the road.

 

[purplea4T]

what is correct police procedure in a case like this?

I assume they must have known there were no pedestrians in the way... and if there was do they just hit the vehicle?

if they had kept turning left, less damage would have been caused.

There is no procedure for that. Do you
a. Hit the car turning across you and hope everyone is belted, airbags working?
b. Try to clear the hazard by evasive driving, ie left and right escape routes.

If the driver had went hard left, the Leon probably would have ended up sideways on into the shop front as happened to the Castlereagh crew who ended up in the Formula 1 shop opposite Musgrave St about 20 years ago. That caused the force to bring on new procedures on relation to pursuits, suitable vehicles and dynamic risk assessments both for pursuits and 999 calls/response driving.

I honestly don't know how they missed every bollard, maybe the driver assumed striking it would stop the car with minimum risk.

 

[Craggus]

There is no procedure for that. Do you
a. Hit the car turning across you and hope everyone is belted, airbags working?
b. Try to clear the hazard by evasive driving, ie left and right escape routes.

If the driver had went hard left, the Leon probably would have ended up sideways on into the shop front as happened to the Castlereagh crew who ended up in the Formula 1 shop opposite Musgrave St about 20 years ago. That caused the force to bring on new procedures on relation to pursuits, suitable vehicles and dynamic risk assessments both for pursuits and 999 calls/response driving.

I honestly don't know how they missed every bollard, maybe the driver assumed striking it would stop the car with minimum risk.

I was wondering that about the bollards too - always assumed that bollard placement was principally to stop vehicle access??

 

[Boydie]

I thought I saw a picture of 1 bollard taken out

 

[suckindiesel]

If the dacia can't spot a marked car coming along what hope does a normal car have. Also looks like they were cutting the turn too.

The normal car is hardly going to be doing that sort of speed though. I'd say the average Dacia driver isn't too perceptive on the road at the best of times.

 

[purplea4T]

I was wondering that about the bollards too - always assumed that bollard placement was principally to stop vehicle access??

Yep, anti ram raid bollards, especially if fegs and drink are sold.

The normal car is hardly going to be doing that sort of speed though. I'd say the average Dacia driver isn't too perceptive on the road at the best of times.

But a normal car isn't lit up like Blackpool Promenade.

 

[Nicky Glanza]

My thought there would have been to plough into the idiot into the Dacia rather than the entrance to a shop! If that where 2-3pm ish there would have been 20 plus school kids standing at the entrance from lisnagarvey. Advanced driving doesn’t mean you can actually drive any better, just a certificate to keep you on the right side of the law in scenarios like that

 

[Gaz]

My thought there would have been to plough into the idiot into the Dacia rather than the entrance to a shop! If that where 2-3pm ish there would have been 20 plus school kids standing at the entrance from lisnagarvey. Advanced driving doesn’t mean you can actually drive any better, just a certificate to keep you on the right side of the law in scenarios like that

It was an instinctual reaction to swerve. Easy for us to say what the driver should have done, but when you have less than a second to react then your brain takes the passenger seat and instincts take over.

The lady in the shop was very lucky those bollards were at the entrance to absorb the impact, otherwise the car would have ploughed on in and probably killed her.

 

[Craggus]

I thought I saw a picture of 1 bollard taken out

My bad - I'd missed that

 

[gpaevo]

Got to love the 'Monday morning Quarterbacks' all over social media.

 

[Bryan]

If you watch the first video there is someone walking along the footpath which is probably the reason why the driver didn't try to swerve right again. They had nowhere else to go.

 

[VEN©M]

police car was hardly flying, maybe 35, less than 40. Dacia driver needs a slap. The lady in the shop should buy buy a euromillions ticket.

 

[KevM]

I dont think there's any doubt it was a full Blue light run. She stops, has a look, continues, pauses to have another look and then jumps out of the way. Obviously, the police car had the blues and siren going the whole time, or she wouldn't have been looking back to see what was going on at all.

 

[VEN©M]

Instinct to swerve to avoid the collision. to believe there was any time on the part of the police car driver to assess his damage-control options and manoeuvre appropriately is misplaced. the police car driver was a passenger about 0.2 secs after initiating the swerve, once you mount a curb at speed and start clipping hard objects, you're a passenger.

 

[stevieturbo]

Wonder if the driver of the Dacia will be prosecuted for causing the crash i.e. dozey bugger lol

Bit of a grey area there.

Technically whilst they did contribute to it, so did the driving of the police. And the Dacia never actually, hit the police car. The police car chose to drive into the shop instead.

Of course it is yet another example of a blind moron causing a crash....and yet again, they were not speeding.

Although at the same time....it must have been apparent from quite a distance the moron in the Dacia was going to do that. Idiots like that stick out like a sore thumb, you just know they'll drive in front of you.

what is correct police procedure in a case like this?

I assume they must have known there were no pedestrians in the way... and if there was do they just hit the vehicle?

if they had kept turning left, less damage would have been caused.

I'd say it was just pure reaction, to avoid the car. Chances of them choosing where they ended up...was zero. Let's face it, a shop entrance is hardly a safer option.
They just got incredibly lucky nobody was hit

I was wondering that about the bollards too - always assumed that bollard placement was principally to stop vehicle access??

And bollards are also often placed to discourage ram raiders....didn't work here lol

 

[stevieturbo]

It was an instinctual reaction to swerve. Easy for us to say what the driver should have done, but when you have less than a second to react then your brain takes the passenger seat and instincts take over.

The lady in the shop was very lucky those bollards were at the entrance to absorb the impact, otherwise the car would have ploughed on in and probably killed her.

In a lot of respects, the safest thing to do is probably drive into the other car. The cars are designed to protect the occupants, and in a built up area like that with shops etc, keeping any impending crash between vehicles and on the road away from pedestrians would make a lot of sense.
It would be a very non instinctive thing to do though, unless you're from certain areas of the city looking a huge claim. It probably comes natural then.

 

[purplea4T]

Bit of a grey area there.

Technically whilst they did contribute to it, so did the driving of the police. And the Dacia never actually, hit the police car. The police car chose to drive into the shop instead.

Of course it is yet another example of a blind moron causing a crash....and yet again, they were not speeding.

Although at the same time....it must have been apparent from quite a distance the moron in the Dacia was going to do that. Idiots like that stick out like a sore thumb, you just know they'll drive in front of you.


I'd say it was just pure reaction, to avoid the car. Chances of them choosing where they ended up...was zero. Let's face it, a shop entrance is hardly a safer option.
They just got incredibly lucky nobody was hit


And bollards are also often placed to discourage ram raiders....didn't work here lol

The definition of an RTC is clear in regards to the Road Traffic Order - “If owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road or public place, an accident occurs by which personal injury is caused, damage to any other vehicle is caused or injury to an animal or damage to property adjoining the road“.
Surely the actions of the Dacia driver (owing to its presence) is the main factor for the accident.

 

[stevieturbo]

The definition of an RTC is clear in regards to the Road Traffic Order - “If owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road or public place, an accident occurs by which personal injury is caused, damage to any other vehicle is caused or injury to an animal or damage to property adjoining the road“.
Surely the actions of the Dacia driver (owing to its presence) is the main factor for the accident.

Yes, but as is the driving of the police car. Two vehicles are involved. Two are to blame. Just which has the most blame.

Sure everyone cries speeding is the biggest evil on the planet, more so than Brexit, Putin, everything.....so those who agree with that would surely say the police car is the cause ? they were speeding.
I often say it's the blind morons not speeding who are the biggest danger, as is very much the case here. They chose to drive into the path of the police car, they caused the other driver to take evasive action.

Somewhere in the middle ? I still say blind moron at fault though. But as also said...it should have been very predictable that Dacia was going to do that, they usually stick out a mile.

 

[purplea4T]

Yes, but as is the driving of the police car. Two vehicles are involved. Two are to blame. Just which has the most blame.

Sure everyone cries speeding is the biggest evil on the planet, more so than Brexit, Putin, everything.....so those who agree with that would surely say the police car is the cause ? they were speeding.
I often say it's the blind morons not speeding who are the biggest danger, as is very much the case here. They chose to drive into the path of the police car, they caused the other driver to take evasive action.

Somewhere in the middle ? I still say blind moron at fault though. But as also said...it should have been very predictable that Dacia was going to do that, they usually stick out a mile.

The police car from what we can see was in its correct lane, the Dacia clearly wasn't.
Certainly an absolute lack of planning, awareness and plain old using your eyes was the Dacia drivers problem there.
Again, I asked the question earlier, do Police (and other blue light services) respond now at the legal limits that they are exempted from?

 

[stevieturbo]

The police car from what we can see was in its correct lane, the Dacia clearly wasn't.
Certainly an absolute lack of planning, awareness and plain old using your eyes was the Dacia drivers problem there.
Again, I asked the question earlier, do Police (and other blue light services) respond now at the legal limits that they are exempted from?

I think they are given a by ball...however, if there is a crash....that by ball is removed.

Speed isn't the problem here, although they probably were speeding. It is just plain old using your eyes. Absolutely the Dacia was in the wrong lane, didn't look. But I bet none of them had their eyes tested after.

 

[BobSpounge]

Blind, stupid, entitled. Come across at least one every day and that's the reason I gave up motorcycling. No way I'd be on a road these days without some steel around me.

Dr Dacia there saw the police car at the last minute and braked hard as you can see the rear of the car rise considerably in the video. I'm certain if that police car had have been a motorbike then he or she would not have seen it at all and would have pulled right across it's path.

 

[gpaevo]

Again, I asked the question earlier, do Police (and other blue light services) respond now at the legal limits that they are exempted from?

The road conditions, volume of traffic and surroundings will dictate the speed driven in addition to the type of call being responded to.

But it always comes back to 'Drive to Arrive'.