F1 2020

[carmad.]

surely the perfect car designed by two different people teams would be nearly the same ?

if they all have the same rules and regs eg body width tyre size front wing size they are bound to get close . i mean look at how many road cars look similar from different manufactures all have similar rules and cost implements .

not to add to the fact that if they did photo every square inch of the car airodynamisists wouldn’t be long in creating a duct that would be very similar i mean it is going in to cool brakes

or just a quick set off plans from a merc engineer lol

 

[mrloaf]

surely the perfect car designed by two different people teams would be nearly the same ?

if they all have the same rules and regs eg body width tyre size front wing size they are bound to get close . i mean look at how many road cars look similar from different manufactures all have similar rules and cost implements .

not to add to the fact that if they did photo every square inch of the car airodynamisists wouldn’t be long in creating a duct that would be very similar i mean it is going in to cool brakes

or just a quick set off plans from a merc engineer lol

Exterior design wouldn't be the issue, looks like it was the identical interior design of the duct (not able to be captured by camera obviously) and exact same manufacturing materials as Merc they couldnt explain their way out of

 

[Jrooney06]

It's genuinely ridiculous. Everyone knows these cars are copies of last year's Ferrari/RB/Mercedes/whatever. It's the whole point of the exercise as otherwise there would just be half a dozen teams on the grid.

The whole "designed by a third party" is just lawyer speak for "have somebody else draw a part that by complete coincidence happens to be identical to the same part from RB/Mercedes/Ferrari".

It's the legal vehicle in the rules allowing customer cars in the first place.

The only reason Renault are kicking up a fuss about RP is because RP happen to be quick this year whereas AT and Haas are not.

And RP will just add some token bit of plastic on the part and go "look, we designed this part ourselves" even though it is still identical to last year's Mercedes.

And life goes on.

I would argue this is just part of a wider problem. Why are teams having to copy or buy parts? Purely because the teams at the top have a huge budget compared to the other teams. The smaller teams can’t afford to design everything if they want to compete towards the front. Hopefully the cost cap will help to reestablish some sort of balance between genuine innovation and money.

MotoGP have a good model that works. I was listening to Michael Laverty talk about how Honda for example by winning the constructors may not even get the most amount of prize money and a team like Aprillia may get more in order to improve their competitiveness and keep the grid tightly packed performance wise. I’m not sure the same model would work for F1 but it could certainly adapted.

Exterior design wouldn't be the issue, looks like it was the identical interior design of the duct (not able to be captured by camera obviously) and exact same manufacturing materials as Merc they couldnt explain their way out of

It was a listed part they bought from Merc so it’s allowed to be identical the difference is they didn’t use the rear brake ducts last year and have this year. It’s a technicality about listed parts and carrying them over from one year to the next or something as far as I’m aware.

 

[RallyCiaran]

MotoGP have a good model that works. I was listening to Michael Laverty talk about how Honda for example by winning the constructors may not even get the most amount of prize money and a team like Aprillia may get more in order to improve their competitiveness and keep the grid tightly packed performance wise. I’m not sure the same model would work for F1 but it could certainly adapted.

The money the F1 teams get should be split evenly. Essentially they are all putting out two cars, so they are all contributing an equal amount to the "show".
Then it is up to a team to bring in whatever extra money it can, either by bringing in sponsors who what to be associated with their team because they are winning, or because the team are doing some great marketing like Red Bull does with all its fan events.

By giving a winning team more prize money you are locking in their advantage.

New teams should be fighting to get into F1. Every junior formula team, or Le Mans team, or Indy car team should be knocking the door down to be included, but they aren't.

 

[Jrooney06]

The money the F1 teams get should be split evenly. Essentially they are all putting out two cars, so they are all contributing an equal amount to the "show".
Then it is up to a team to bring in whatever extra money it can, either by bringing in sponsors who what to be associated with their team because they are winning, or because the team are doing some great marketing like Red Bull does with all its fan events.

By giving a winning team more prize money you are locking in their advantage.

New teams should be fighting to get into F1. Every junior formula team, or Le Mans team, or Indy car team should be knocking the door down to be included, but they aren't.

The only problem is that when you are backed by a manufacturer like Ferrari and Merc who sink money in then it’s difficult for the smaller teams to find the sponsorship to match that. So that would have to be stopped.

I agree though it’s massively skewed towards the big/winning teams at the minute. McLaren and Racing Point (excluding this year!) are good examples I think of making the most of the budget. I think the big teams may find it difficult the adapt in 2022 with less money to spend. I hope anyway. The only thing I hate about the budget cut is effectively the staff at the teams possibly be paid less or the minimum possible so resources can be spent elsewhere.

 

[svensktoppen]

Can't see the 2022 change being anything other than window dressing. The big teams still get the biggest slice of the pie and the scheme is nigh on impossible to enforce across the complex company structures these teams run. Just run the expensive parts of the team as a separate loss making "third party", or whatever. Engines are already done like that.

But then I'm a cynical old fart, lol Happy to be proven wrong.

None of this is new either, F1 has always been run like this. It's just that the cost of entry has been pushed astronomically high since the hybrid balls was introduced.

And that's not going away. So nothing will really change.

 

[stevyg]

I think there's something else going on. How did Renault know the new brake duct was similar to last years Mercedes? Of all the parts on an F1 car that they think could give a rival an edge, they knew that? I'm glad RP have spiced up the grid but I hardly think it's because of a damn brake duct.

 

[MarkM]

I think there's something else going on. How did Renault know the new brake duct was similar to last years Mercedes? Of all the parts on an F1 car that they think could give a rival an edge, they knew that? I'm glad RP have spiced up the grid but I hardly think it's because of a damn brake duct.

An engineer they poached told them

 

[DC.]

Toto said today another team (Racing Point) photographed their car last year with a 3D camera.

 

[Blackie]

Ferrari are to dispute the RP ruling....... What am I missing?

 

[Jrooney06]

Ferrari are to dispute the RP ruling....... What am I missing?

Probably how they were deemed illegal but still allowed to continue to use them for the rest of the season.

 

[Dave..]

Ferrari are to dispute the RP ruling....... What am I missing?

So are McLaren.

 

[svensktoppen]

Sore losers

 

[svensktoppen]

In other news the Hulk is back

Fingers crossed he has better luck this weekend.

 

[pablo]

Podium?

 

[svensktoppen]

Lol

Finishing ahead of Stroll would be awesome

 

[Robert]

Getting to start the race would be better than last weekend

 

[MarkM]

P3 for Hulk, love it

 

[AlpineF30]

P3 for Hulk, love it

Really hope he gets that monkey off his back tomorrow and gets the podium. He is a likeable guy

Odd question but does anybody recommend any motorsport to substitute F1?

So bored with it at the moment so would love something else to watch

 

[trev 1515]

Really hope he gets that monkey off his back tomorrow and gets the podium. He is a likeable guy

Odd question but does anybody recommend any motorsport to substitute F1?

So bored with it at the moment so would love something else to watch

Moto GP btcc etc

 

[DC.]

Take Mercedes out of it and I think F1 is great to watch at the moment. The battle for the last podium spot tomorrow should be real close.

Obviously it’s nowhere as unpredictable as MotoGP, BTCC, V8 Supercars etc etc.

I’d love to see Hulkenberg get a full drive next year as he’s better than both Haas drivers, both Alfa drivers, Kvyat, Latifi and arguably Vettel.

 

[weeloaney]

Really hope he gets that monkey off his back tomorrow and gets the podium. He is a likeable guy

Odd question but does anybody recommend any motorsport to substitute F1?

So bored with it at the moment so would love something else to watch

BTCC is on tomorrow from 10.30am till like 6 or so.

only 3 BTCC races but they are always brilliant especially at brands hatch. All the support races are usually more exciting that al f1, especially if the clios are racing. It’s on ITV4

 

[weeloaney]

19 cars within 1sec after qualifying. This is why it’s soo good.

 

[cauld1]

Take Mercedes out of it and I think F1 is great to watch at the moment. The battle for the last podium spot tomorrow should be real close.

Obviously it’s nowhere as unpredictable as MotoGP, BTCC, V8 Supercars etc etc.

I’d love to see Hulkenberg get a full drive next year as he’s better than both Haas drivers, both Alfa drivers, Kvyat, Latifi and arguably Vettel.

Hes also better than the guy he is subbing for in my opinion.

F1 has been pretty watchable this year I think.

Nowhere near as good as rallying but then circuit racing isn't really anyway. Cant wait for wrc coming back!

 

[DC.]

Debate going round that Hulkenberg and Perez would be Racing Point’s best lineup for next year.

Off load Stroll to Haas and forget about Vettel.